The Capercaillie (Hansard, 6 December 1990)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Scottish Office (Lord Strathclyde)
My Lords, my honourable friend the Minister for the Environment consulted interested parties on 23rd March regarding the desirability of introducing a shooting ban to conserve capercaillie. The responses confirmed that shooting is not a major pressure and that further research is needed. My honourable friend therefore announced on 2nd September that a shooting ban would not be imposed, and that the Nature Conservancy Council is to follow up the consultation. I shall gladly supply a copy of the announcement and place it in the Library.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. However, will he not agree that as the numbers of capercaillie are now down to slightly fewer than 2,000, as far as can be judged, and as they are not good to eat and not even good sport, even the loss of a few by shooting is a waste of time? Will the Minister therefore rethink the question of a shooting ban, at least for the next season?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I do not dispute that the capercaillie is neither good sport nor good to eat; I have neither sported with them nor eaten them. No doubt the noble Baroness speaks from experience. It is a well known fact that the cause of the decline of the capercaillie has been due to loss of habitat. It is also well known that sporting estates are interested in maintaining habitat. That is why we asked for a voluntary ban on shooting rather than a statutory one.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, will my noble friend agree that the last point he made regarding the preservation of habitats is one of the most important features in this matter? Sportsmen have already taken a number of steps by imposing voluntary bans on the shooting of capercaillie and in preserving many of the remains of the pine forests which are the natural habitat for these birds. Will the Minister agree to look at the question of whether predation is an important feature when it comes to the research activities to which he referred?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely correct in everything that he says. Certainly the research being carried out will look at all aspects of habitat and predation concerning the capercaillie.

§ Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge
My Lords, the word "predation" is new to me. Does it mean the work of predatory birds? What does it mean?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I understand that the greatest predatory threats to the capercaillie are the ground vermin such as foxes.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, following my Question earlier this year on this subject, are the Government entirely satisfied that the future is safe, at least for several years, for this remarkable bird? It became extinct in Scotland and was reintroduced only in the last century.

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, that was very much the basis of the consultation. Nobody wishes to see the extinction of this bird. My noble friend is quite correct in saying that it was extinct in the early part of the 19th century. We are sure that this is the right way to go ahead and shall look carefully at the results of the research when they come out.

§ Lord Carmichael of Kelvingrove
My Lords, although I appreciate the Minister saying that there will be a voluntary ban on shooting the capercaillie and that most shooters will accept the ban, the Minister may remember the Question tabled by his noble friend Lord Campbell of Croy in April. It was made quite clear then that the feeling of the House was that one of the few things we could do immediately to help preserve the capercaillie was to ban shooting. Is he sure that the shooting ban will be acknowledged not only by the responsible shooters but also by the irresponsible shooters in the world? Phychologically, would it not be better to say that we will prohibit the shooting of these birds?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, of course there are irresponsible shooters around. Those are not the people with whom we are dealing. We discovered that the threat to the capercaillie does not come from the 273 sportsmen; it comes from the loss of habitat. It is in that area that we are conducting research to improve the habitat and therefore the long-term natural prospects for this fine bird.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, in the interests of accuracy, is the noble Lord aware that the capercaillie is almost impossible to shoot due to its high wing loading? One may think it is travelling at 15 miles an hour and it is actually travelling at 70 miles an hour. Will he also inform the noble Baroness that they are quite edible? I understand that if the cock birds are buried for three months they can be eaten by very brave people.

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I am sure that the House is delighted by the additional information brought forward by the noble Lord.

§ Lady Saltoun of Abernethy
My Lords, will the noble Lord agree that the shortage of natural habitat of the capercaillie is a very good argument for encouraging afforestation?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, the noble Lady is correct. We should and we do encourage afforestation. It is also the right kind of forest that is important. The Forestry Commission is very forward in developing the Scots Pine forest, which is the main natural habitat of the capercaillie.

§ Lord Brain
My Lords, will the Minister agree that there is perhaps a need for a limited amount of culling of the older capercaillie? That would enable the younger and more productive birds to breed; therefore there is good reason for suitable controls.

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord is right. Unfortunately we are delving into technical expertise, of which I have virtually none. That is the reason we have organisations like the NCC, which is leading the research.