The Underground: Escalator Failures (Hansard, 6 November 1989)

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I understand that in the week ending 14th October 24 escalator failures were recorded. The average time out of service for each failure was two and a half hours. In addition, 11 escalators were in the process of being replaced and routine maintenance was carried out on a further 31 during the period. London Underground does not record the average length of time out of service for those categories.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for that slightly confusing Answer.

§ Baroness Phillips
It was not confusing enough.

§ Lord Tordoff
The noble Viscount will be aware of an Answer given by his noble friend Lord Brabazon of Tara in July, which is now nearly four months ago, when he was good enough to let us know that there was a 70 per cent. availability of escalators. Will he calculate what the current availability is? If we accept the figures that he gave us, of 11 which were totally replaced and 24 out of action for two and a half hours, I should point out that it is the other 31 which, as the noble Viscount will agree, give cause for concern because a number of them have been out of action for a very long time.

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I understand the noble Lord to say that my noble friend stated in July that availability then was 70 per cent. I can tell him that in the past four weeks, between 17th September and 14th October, escalators were available on average for 73 per cent. of the time. So there has been an improvement. I believe I said last week that it was better to have an improvement than to go the other way.
As my noble friend also said on 17th July, LUL has committed itself to improve the availability of escalators to 85 per cent. by the end of next year. We should therefore see a gradual improvement.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, does my noble friend in fact regard it as an improvement when he has to say that 27 per cent. of the escalators on the London Underground are out of service? Is he aware of the hardship that that causes, particularly to the disabled, the elderly and people with luggage? In the circumstances does he agree that it is a pity that his noble friend Lord Brabazon of Tara rejected the suggestion made earlier in this House that someone should be appointed to London Underground who understands how these things work?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, there are a considerable number of engineers working for London Underground who understand how these things work and are putting them right. The LUL is responsible for the efficient functioning of the system. It appreciates that the present situation is unsatisfactory and aims to improve both lift and escalator availability as soon as possible. However, inevitably it will take several months.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, is the Minister encouraged to learn that the Piccadilly and Northern Line Users' Committee by its research work confirmed the figure of 70 per cent.? If one looks at the figures from the other direction, 30 per cent. of escalators are out of operation. That represents 90 escalators since the total number is 275. Is that due to lack of proper planning, no finance or shortage of skilled engineers? If it is the last mentioned factor, what is to be done about it?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I do not much want to argue about 3 per cent. The figure at the moment is 73 per cent. and it is getting better. Investment in the Underground, supported by substantial government grant, is already at record levels, approaching £300 million for 1989–90. Of that sum about £10 million is for the replacement and modernisation of escalators. In addition, LUL has continuing routine repair and maintenance programmes.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, may I inform the noble Viscount that I came through King's Cross Underground Station half an hour ago? The down escalator has been out of order for weeks. Is he aware that this month British Rail is encouraging older people to travel on cheap fares from the North? If he goes to King's Cross at any time during November he will see hundreds of elderly people with heavy cases struggling down 60 or 70 concrete steps. Do the Government recognise that they have some responsibility in this matter? I have complained for weeks in this House about the escalator at Pimlico Station. It was not out of order for two and a half weeks; it was out of order for months on end.

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, perhaps the noble Lord will use his influence and write to the chairman of LRT.

§ Lord Nugent of Guildford
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that as a regular user of the Underground and a former frequent critic of the escalators, my impression is that there has been a slight improvement in recent months? As I always count the steps when I have to climb up without using the escalators, I believe that my impression is probably reliable.

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend.

§ Lord Bonham-Carter
My Lords, does the Minister recognise that not only the escalators are out of order in the London Underground but the lifts as well; and not only the lifts are out of order but the signal 433 equipment as well; and not only the signals, the lifts and the escalators are out of order but the trains as well? Is he aware that this morning when I arrived at Holland Park tube station both the lifts, which were installed two years ago, were out of order? Is he further aware that when I got out at Notting Hill Gate two of the escalators were not working? Moreover does he know that the route between the Central and District Lines was also out of order? Is he further aware that last Monday the District and Circle Lines were out of order for the bulk of the day? When I got in at Waterloo to go to Oxford Circus I found that the train stopped at Oxford Circus because the doors did not open. When I got out at Regent's Park in order to get back to Oxford Circus, the train went straight through the station. Does the noble Viscount wish me to continue?
When I got out at wherever it was and sought to go to Green Park, there had been a fire at Green Park so I could not get out and had to walk to Bond Street. Does the noble Viscount agree that these things cause increasing frustration and anger on the part of those who use London transport and unlike Ministers are dependent on it? Does he not further agree that this situation is due to under-investment over the past 10 years, itself due to the present Government's belief that profit is more important than public service?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I wonder how it is that we ever see the noble Lord here.

Lord Morris
My Lords, can my noble friend explain how with the considerable number of LUL engineers to which he referred in his previous Answer they are never seen repairing the escalators?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I doubt whether my noble friend travels on the Underground between 12 o'clock at night and five o'clock in the morning.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the Minister aware that when I came from Euston Station this morning two out of four lifts were out of order? One escalator which was out of order was a very long one indeed. On it there was marooned halfway down a young lady who was having extreme difficulty in carrying a heavy case and trying to negotiate the steps. Does the Minister agree that the situation is potentially a recipe for disaster and that something ought to be done to eliminate it?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I do not know whether the noble Lord offered to carry the lady's case.

§ Lord Grimond
My Lords, is the Minister aware that it took longer to put a new escalator into Holland Park Station than it did to build the whole of the Central Line with picks and shovels before the First World War? Could he not call in the Army? I can assure him that the engineers in the Army would get these things done in one-tenth of the time that London Transport takes to do it.

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, certainly I shall mention the noble Lord's remarks to my right honourable friend.

§ Baroness Macleod of Borve
My Lords, further to the question put by the noble Lord, Lord Grimond, does the Minister believe that it would be a good idea if he consulted London Transport and indeed, so far as he could, insisted that all its members travel to work by Underground?

§ Viscount Davidson
Certainly, my Lords.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, I am certain that the House will appreciate the humour of the noble Viscount's recent replies. However, does he agree that there is greater usage of London's Underground than ever before and therefore for something in the order of 90 escalators to be out of action at any one time is a very serious inconvenience to travellers? That is our concern. If that is a consequence of an inadequate period of working time, would it be possible to add to the number of skilled engineers? If there are not sufficient skilled engineers about, I should like to know why.

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I shall certainly draw the remarks that have been made to the attention of LRT's chairman. I quite agree that the problem of overcrowding and congestion is one caused by success and that it leads to worse problems on the Underground. LUL is carrying out an investigation into congestion and has plans to spend many millions over the next three years to relieve station congestion and improve train service capacity and performance.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, will the House allow me to add to the pool of human knowledge by asking the noble Viscount whether he is aware that the escalator at Paddington is out of order today? So there are three main London stations which do not have escalators working today when, as the noble Lord said earlier, there are cheap fares being offered to senior citizens on British Rail. Will the noble Viscount please take on board the feeling of the House, which is looking at this matter seriously? Will he try to obtain a rather better improvement than 3 per cent. when we come round to this Question in three months' time?

§ Viscount Davidson
Yes of course I shall, my Lords.