HL Deb 19 June 1986 vol 476 cc1029-30

3.6 p.m.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government when they discovered that plutonium produced by the Central Electricity Generating Board was being used in the United States for military purposes.

The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Lord Gray of Contin)

My Lords, plutonium derived from the CEGB's Magnox power stations was exported to the United States before 1971 under the US/UK mutual defence agreement. The UK in return received a quantity of highly enriched uranium for the UK defence programme. The US authorities have said that it is not their policy to use this plutonium in weapons, and have confirmed that they have not done so.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the noble Lord, Lord Marshall, appears to have agreed that civil plutonium in this country has been exported to the United States and has been used there for military purposes? Do the Government confirm or deny that?

Lord Gray of Contin

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Marshall, was referring to plutonium sent to the United States under the mutual defence agreement to which I referred. He would have understood that, being exported under the MDA, the material would have been brought into the military cycle. However, in 1964 my noble friend, then Sir Alec Douglas-Home, when Prime Minister told the House that the United States had no intention of using the material in weapons. The United States Government have stated that they have not used it for weapons and that is still their policy.

Baroness Gardner of Parkes

My Lords, will the Minister inform the House why we do not disclose the amount of plutonium that we have exported to the United States under the defence agreement?

Lord Gray of Contin

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for asking that question. It enables me to point out that the United Kingdom received a certain quantity of highly enriched uranium in return. That was for the military programme of the Ministry of Defence. It would not be in the national interest to disclose the quantity of plutonium exported, because that might indicate the quantity of highly enriched uranium received in return.

Lord Mellish

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the other day there was a terrible row in this House which arose from the noble Lord, Lord Beloff, asking a Question about a train which left Oxford and never arrived at Brighton? Can the Minister give me an assurance that none of the plutonium will ever be sent by that train?

Lord Gray of Contin

My Lords, I am sure that those of us who knew the noble Lord in another place rejoice in the fact that since coming here he has retained his highly active sense of humour.

Lord Broxbourne

My Lords, are we to understand from what my noble friend said that the export of the plutonium under those agreements went on continuously from 1964 to 1970? Can he remind your Lordships what Administration were then in power?

Lord Gray of Contin

My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely correct. These exports have taken place under the defence agreement that we have with the United States. They have gone on during the period of office of successive Governments of both parties.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the extent to which the United States military nuclear programme currently depends upon British plutonium being exported to that country?

Lord Gray of Contin

My Lords, I have, I think, made clear that the Americans have indicated to us and have confirmed to us that plutonium exported from this country is not used for military purposes. I reiterate that.

The Earl of Halsbury

My Lords, whether it is or whether it is not, does it matter tuppence?

Lord Avebury

Surely, my Lords, if the Americans use this exported plutonium for civilian purposes it means that some other plutonium that would have had to be used for those civilian purposes can be diverted to military use.

Lord Gray of Contin

No, my Lords. The simple fact of the matter is that there is nothing in the treaty that would prevent the Americans using the plutonium for military purposes, but they have given an absolute assurance that it has not been and is not being used for military purposes. That we accept.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, can the Minister give an assurance that the Government will not supply plutonium either from the electricity board or from other sources to America to assist it in its dangerous policy of expanding nuclear weapons?

Lord Gray of Contin

My Lords, exports of plutonium and other nuclear materials can only take place on receipt of inter-governmental assurances covering peaceful use, the application of safeguards, physical protection and controls on re-transfer. That would be the position regarding any plutonium that was exported. The agreement that we have with the Americans is, in the view of the Government, absolutely satisfactory. We have no reason to suspect our American friends in any way.