HL Deb 21 April 1986 vol 473 cc955-6

2.54 p.m.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government in what circumstances and after what consultations the Prime Minister will give further permissions to the United States to fly operationally from bases in the United Kingdom.

The Minister of State for Defence Support (Lord Trefgarne)

My Lords, under long-standing arrangements, the use by United States forces of bases in the United Kingdom in an emergency would be a matter for joint decision by Her Majesty's Government and the United States Government in the light of the circumstances prevailing at the time.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for the Answer that he has given, but under the guise of giving information he has given none at all. We should really like to know in what circumstances such permission will be given in future. Is it not the case that recently, much to the astonishment of the people of this country, we discovered that aircraft flying operationally from this country had launched a completely unannounced and surprise attack on the people of Benghazi and Tripoli? We had no knowledge of or say in the matter whatsoever. Does the Minister not agree that that is an entirely unsatisfactory situation? Will he put the agreement under which that occurred before Parliament so that we can discuss and perhaps amend it, and, if we find it unsatisfactory, even ask the American forces to withdraw?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I am not sure to which agreement the noble Lord is referring, but if he is referring to what I think was the earliest exchange between governments on this matter, that between ambassadors on 15th April 1950, I shall happily place a copy in the Library.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, with regard to the remarks made by the Foreign Secretary on television yesterday, was his meaning that if the EC Ministers agreed to take certain steps against Libya this Government would decline to permit further sorties of United States aircraft from British bases, and that unless they gave such agreement permission for further sorties would be forthcoming?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I cannot anticipate what our reaction to some future request from the United States would be. It would depend upon the circumstances at the time.

Lord Mellish

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the one sure way to avoid a repetition of what is alleged to be American action in flying to Libya would be if, for the first time for a long time, our European allies showed a little more guts and agreed to take measures collectively to ensure that the man who is now in charge of Libya, Mr. Gaddafi, is dealt with as the thug that he is? It is about time that Europe showed a little bit of principle.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I certainly admit to a degree of disappointment over European action hitherto. I understand that the Ministers are meeting again today. Let us hope that something better emerges.

Lord Mayhew

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the longstanding arrangements to which he referred in his original reply are not usually considered to be the exchanges between ambassadors, which he agreed to put in the Library, but correspondence between President Truman and Mr. Attlee? Will he agree to put that correspondence in the Library?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I think that the arrangements to which the noble Lord is referring were succinctly repeated in the communiqué which was issued on 9th January 1952, with which the noble Lord is no doubt familiar.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, will the Minister say whether the decision rests solely on whoever happens to be the British Prime Minister and whoever happens to be the President of the United States of America, even if that could mean the beginning of a worldwide nuclear war?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the matter to which the noble Lord referred is one for the Prime Minister and the President of the day, but those arrangements have stood the test of time very well.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, following that reply from the noble Lord, would it not be better if a joint decision were made in Britain by the Government of the day—the Cabinet, in other words?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that the Government's views are as represented by the Prime Minister.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, the Foreign Secretary said yesterday that the further use of British bases for attacks on Libya was not absolutely excluded. Will the noble Lord say whether, if a request similar to that made 10 days ago to the Prime Minister were made again, it would be acceded to?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I really cannot anticipate what the Prime Minister's reaction to a hypothetical situation would be, but if the circumstances were appropriate she would agree.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that the picture of the American President and the British Prime Minister is now overlaid by a picture in the public mind of a baby lying injured and crying in a Tripoli hospital, and that the circumstances are perhaps slightly different?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I have an image of Woman Police Constable Fletcher lying dead in St. James's Square.

Forward to