HL Deb 11 June 1985 vol 464 cc1129-31

3.7 p.m.

Lord Fanshawe of Richmond

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are now in a position to make a statement regarding the reform of the "in lieu" system of discharging capital tax liabilities in kind following the assurance given by the Earl of Gowrie to the House on 24th April (col. 1209).

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, consideration of the "in lieu" arrangements is under way as a matter of urgency, and my noble friend the Minister for the Arts will of course inform the House of the outcome at the earliest possible date.

Lord Fanshawe of Richmond

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there is great concern among the museums and the art world about the need for a decision on this question as a matter of urgency? Can he give an assurance that a decision will be taken within the next four weeks?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, on 16th May, in answer to a supplementary question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, I gave assurances that an urgent review of the AIL arrangements is in hand. This involves the Treasury, the Inland Revenue and the departments responsible for the heritage. My noble friend the Minister for the Arts will announce the outcome by the Summer Recess.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that works of art are being lost to the nation through this arbitrary ceiling? Will the Government, in the course of their discussions, consider the French dation system whereby works of art are accepted by the nation without any necessary compensatory figure from the Vote? The French museums have been greatly enriched as a consequence.

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, it is true to say that with the rapid increase in the value of works of art and property in recent years not all AIL offers halve been accepted. As far as concerns the detailed point which the noble Lord made, about the French provisions, I undertake that my noble friend will of course consider them.

The Earl of Perth

My Lords, will the noble Lord give the House an assurance that until a decision has been made, no objects which are at present being offered "in lieu" will be turned down?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, with the best will in the world I do not think that I can give the noble Earl, Lord Perth, that assurance; but I can confirm that money is still available this year for acceptance in lieu provisions.

Lord Gibson

My Lords, does the noble Lord the Minister not agree that last minute rescue operations of the kind which we have seen recently and which are certainly very acceptable when they occur are, nevertheless, not the best way of dealing with a problem which is continuous and certainly, except in respect of timing, largely predictable?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I do not think I can agree with the noble Lord that in matters of timing it is predictable. There is a very great divergence in the amounts of money that are needed at any particular time.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, is the noble Lord not aware that this is only a notional amount? If the amounts were real money and not notional money the state would be accepting it twice over; both the value and the work of art.

Lord Skelmersdale

No, my Lords, I disagree that this is a notional amount. Obviously if property is accepted for tax purposes, as opposed to revenue, this is revenue forgone.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, the French seem to get on very well. Will the noble Lord consider injecting a little Gallic clarity into the Anglo-Saxon fog at the Treasury?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I have already given the noble Lord an answer on the French provisions, which is that my noble friend the Minister for the Arts will consider the point that the noble Lord has made so stringently.