Garbage: Disposal at Sea (Hansard, 22 November 1984)

§ Lord Ezra
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, the Government's policy is to stress to the shipping industry the need to avoid disposal of garbage at sea and to recommend voluntary compliance with the provisions of Annex V of the International Convention for the Prevention of Pollution from Ships, known as MARPOL 73–78. It is our policy also to seek at the International Maritime Organisation to amend the content of Annex V to a form more acceptable to the United Kingdom, so as to enable the United Kingdom to ratify this annex at the earliest possible time.

§ Lord Ezra
My Lords, in thanking the noble Lord for that information, may I ask whether he is aware of the research carried out by the Keep Britain Tidy group, with which I happen to be connected, which has proved conclusively that most of the litter on our beaches, particularly bordering the North Sea and the Channel, derives from the dumping of garbage by ships at sea? In those circumstances, why is Great Britain one of the few maritime nations that has not signed Annex V of the convention to which the noble Lord refers?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, we are very concerned with the disposal of garbage at sea. We admire the work that the Keep Britain Tidy group does. The reason that we have not ratified Annex V is that the problems of garbage disposal for operators of large cruise liners result from a shortage of shore reception facilities in potential special areas abroad.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, would the Minister not agree that other parts of the British coastline are affected, besides those mentioned in the Question? I have in mind, for example, the west of Wales and the Gower coast, which almost every other day is polluted by this criminal activity of garbage being dumped on the high seas which then swills ashore? Can the Minister tell us, following upon what he told the House a moment ago, what action has been taken, who has been brought to court, and who has been given a penalty for committing this grievous offence against the coasts of our country?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, we are well aware that it is not only the North Sea and the English Channel that are affected by this practice. As to the noble Lord's point about disposal, it is garbage we are talking about at this moment. The noble Lord may well be referring to the disposal of other items, such as containers and drums of dangerous chemicals. These are covered by another annex of MARPOL—Annex III. Already 99 per cent. of the activities covered in that annex are against the law in this country.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, with the greatest respect, would the Minister not agree that all of it is garbage? Some parts of it are more venomous than others. If the Government do not see that, I am quite prepared to come along and give them a hand. I want to know what action has been taken. In any part of the coast of our country it is only when there is a great wreck and something terrible happens, and we see it on our TV screens, that we are aware of it. Is the Minister aware that there is hardly a part of our coastline which for some reason or another is not affected by this activity? Can we be told whether action has been taken, what action can be taken, and who takes it to defend the coast of Great Britain?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I have said that we hope to agree to the annex of the international convention as soon as possible, when we get the amendments which we are looking for to protect our own shipping industry when they go to other parts of the world where the facilities are not as good as they are in this country.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, bearing in mind that the UN Law of the Sea Convention deals, among many other issues advantageous to Britain, with pollution of the seas, why are the Government so reluctant to sign this convention, in the negotiation of which, to my personal knowledge, the UK has played so active a role? Are we going to sign this convention, or are we not?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I hope that we will. I come back to the point that until other parts of the world can produce the shore reception facilities that our liners would require—this would refer particularly to the special areas, such as the Mediterranean—we do not want to jeopardise our trade until we can get those amendments through. We are working for that at the moment.

Lord Morris
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the disposal at sea of vegetable matter and, indeed, any other edible matter is greatly welcomed by both oysters and bottom feeding fish?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, as a lover of oysters, I welcome my noble friend's remarks.

Lord Oram
My Lords, is not the deadline for signature of the treaty 9th December? Can the noble Lord give us any hope that the undertakings that he is seeking will be received before 9th December?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I am afraid I was not aware that the deadline was 9th December. I 681 would point out, though, that in order for Annex V to become law it requires, I believe, to be signed by 50 per cent. of the gross tonnage shipping of the world. Even if we signed it now, it would not reach that figure. Two of the largest ship-owning countries—Liberia and the United States—are not yet signatories.

§ Lord Shinwell
My Lords, would it not be advisable if members of the Government were a little cautious about answering questions always in the affirmative, as if they can do something about it? Is it not a fact—I say "a fact"—that those areas in the Channel, any part of our coast, any part of the seas throughout the world, where garbage is disposed of are the best fishing grounds?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I am aware that we cannot always do something about it. What we can do is to try to do the best we can.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that when he is asked by the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, what the Government are doing, and so forth—quite reasonable on one point of view—considerable difficulties lie in the path of Her Majesty's Government in taking any action outside territorial waters in the absence of the convention to which he has referred?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I am well aware of this. Even if we signed Annex V, we would only be able to get at shipping either under our own flag or which called in at our ports.