HL Deb 12 June 1984 vol 452 cc990-2

2.43 p.m.

Lord Glenamara

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what are the latest average annual costs of providing first degree arts courses and first degree science courses in universities and polytechnics respectively.

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, it is not possible to identify the costs of undergraduates separately, but the net institutional average annual cost per student in the financial year 1982–83, the latest year for which firm figures are available, was, for universities in Great Britain, about £3,600 for classroom-based students and £5,300 for laboratory-based students, while, for polytechnics in England, classroom-based students cost an average of £2,600 and laboratory-based students an average of £3,800. These figures are gross of tuition fees but exclude the cost of student maintenance awards.

Lord Glenamara

My Lords, how do the Government justify the enormous disparity in the funding of the universities and the public sector of higher education revealed by the figures which the noble Earl has just given us?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, direct comparisons between university and polytechnic funding are notoriously difficult because of the different allocative mechanisms used for the two sectors. Such factors as the range of subjects and levels of courses in polytechnics and universities, and the latter's greater commitment of resources to research, go some way towards explaining the cost differential. However, given the difficulties inherent in such comparisons, the Government are more concerned with providing absolute levels of funding which are appropriate to each sector's effective and efficient operation.

Baroness David

My Lords, can the Minister give the reasons for the difference in the level of resources? Is it because of the staff-student ratio? Is it because of the salary levels? Is it that the universities have more lecturers at higher grades? What are the reasons?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I should have thought that I had probably answered that question, but a number of factors underlie the differential in unit costs, all of which make legitimate comparison of unit costs harder. whether at an institutional or sectoral level. First, it is estimated in the July 1983 inter-sectoral comparisons paper that on average some 25 per cent. of total university resources are devoted directly or indirectly to research.

Secondly, certain very high cost subjects, such as medicine and veterinary science, are taught only in universities. Thirdly, unit costs will also be affected by differences in the mix of levels and modes within the total provision. For instance, there is an observed tendency for higher level courses to be more costly to provide.

Lord Glenamara

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that I am not at all sure what he said in his two replies, but I shall read them very carefully? Can be answer one specific point? When will the Government start to fund research in the polytechnics?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, at the moment there is a working party of the NAB and the UGC looking into the level of funding for research in polytechnics, and that working party will report before long.

Lord Grimond

My Lords, as regards the comparison between the universities and the polytechnics, do not the figures show, as one would expect, that it is very much cheaper to educate art students, and. that being so, why it is very necessary to increase the number of science students? If it is finance that is worrying the Government about university expenditure, will they give an assurance that they will not cut down the number of art students, which potentially is very great indeed, purely on grounds of economy?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I can probably give that undertaking. It is a question of there being only a certain amount of money available, which will be used in the best possible way.