HL Deb 26 January 1984 vol 447 cc392-4

7.10 p.m.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.

Moved, That the House do now again resolve itself into Committe.—(Lord Kennet.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

[The LORD AMPTHILL in the Chair.]

Lord Kennet moved Amendment No. 7: After Clause 2, insert the following new clause:

("Extradition etc.

.—(1) Offences under section I shall be included—

  1. (a) in the list of extradition crimes contained in Schedule 1 to the Extradition Act 1870; and
  2. (b) among the descriptions of offences set out in Schedule 1 to the Fugitive Offenders Act 1967.

(2) In paragraph 1 of the Schedule to the Visiting Forces Act 1952 (offences against the person in the case of which a member of a visiting force is in certain circumstances not liable to be tried by a United Kingdom court), at the end of paragraph (b) there shall be inserted, appropriately numbered, the following paragraph— ( ) section 1 of the Prohibition of Female Circumcision Act 1984.".").

The noble Lord said: This amendment comes in two parts. Subsection (1) provides that female circumcision shall be an extraditable offence. This is obviously desirable as, these days, all serious offences are extraditable. It is especially desirable in this case because more and more countries are banning the operation. When there is a general move among several countries to ban a certain action, extradition between those countries becomes more a part of the necessary fabric of enforcement.

Subsection (2) provides that visiting forces to this country, which in practice means United States forces, shall be free to proceed against those who break this law under (in that case) United States law. This is in line with the treatment of other offences of violence against the person. Subsection (2) will permit a United States service man or woman who carried out this operation on a United States service woman to be tried in a United States court and not in a British court. The case is so extremely hypothetical that it seems to me logical and not against any other principle that this amendment should be adopted. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 3 [Notification of operations under section 2, etc.]:

On Question, Whether Clause 3 shall stand part of the Bill?

Lord Kennet

I rise to oppose the Motion that Clause 3 shall stand part of the Bill. On Monday of this week we heard a great deal about the freedom of surgeons to operate on girls who wrongly believed that they were malformed. If they were right in their beliefs, then the question would not arise under the Bill as drafted. The Committee decided that this dubious class of operation was not worthy of exemption from the Bill. I believe that was a right decision. The noble Lord, Lord Glenarthur, informed us that it was a question of only 10 or 20 operations a year, in any case.

Clause 3 refers to the application of a whole apparatus of notification and certification. As it applies to all the operations which may be done to the external genitalia of women, and as your Lordships have been informed by the Government that those run into several tens of thousands a year, then it would indeed be onerous to require that doctors obtain certificates, issue certificates, ensure that they are registered, and all the rest of it. This was a defect in the original drafting of the Bill.

With the agreement—indeed, at the instigation—of the Government, I am now moving that those provisions should not be included. Had they been included, little would have been gained because those who are bent on breaking this law would find it no harder to break if the notification provisions were there than if they were not. We are not chasing after the general run of respectable doctors, nurses and midwives, because they will not break the law anyway. We are chasing after those with a criminal propensity, who will not find it hard to evade the notification provisions. Therefore, I ask your Lordships to agree that Clause 3 shall not stand part of the Bill.

Clause 3 disagreed to.

Clause 4 [Short title and commencement]:

Lord Kennet moved Amendment No. 8:

Page 2, line 31, at end insert— ("(3) This Act extends to Northern Ireland.")

The noble Lord said: This amendment will simply remove any doubt about whether the Bill applies to Northern Ireland, and says that it does. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 4, as amended, agreed to.

House resumed: Bill reported with the amendments.

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn during pleasure until eight o'clock.

Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

[The sitting was suspended from 7.16 until 8 p.m.]