HL Deb 09 June 1982 vol 431 cc193-6

2.52 p.m.

Lord Campbell of Alloway

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government when they propose to implement recommendations of the Mathys Committee (May 1974) concerning the registration of service marks in line with practice now adopted in four members states of the EEC, Australia, Canada, USA, and 27 other states including the USSR

Lord Cockfield

My Lords, a draft regulation and a draft directive on trade marks have recently been published by the European Commission. We will need to consider what action to take on service marks in the light of decisions taken on the Community proposals.

Lord Campbell of Alloway

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for his reply. Would he not agree that this problem is basically a matter of municipal law, national law, as distinct from Community law? Would he not agree that the fact that Australia and Germany—one being a common law country and the other being a Napoleonic code country—have within the last year introduced this type of protection, points to the fact that this type of industrial property ought to be protected? If he will agree with that, would he not consider it appropriate to introduce a short Bill on a non-controversial matter, or, at all events, to give some sort of avuncular, benign support to the introduction of a Private Member's Bill?

Lord Cockfield

My Lords, the fact that the Mathys Committee, to which my noble friend refers, reported in 1974, suggests that there has been no desperate sense of urgency in dealing with this problem. The position which we now face is that the Community have published a draft regulation and a draft directive. These will have important bearings on the whole of our law of trade marks. It will almost certainly be necessary to legislate if the directive is adopted, and that would be the appropriate moment to consider what legislation to introduce in the case of service marks.

Lord Leatherland

My Lords, does the noble Lord the Minister agree that the term, "avuncular", which was attributed to him by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, was an appropriate one?

Lord Cockfield

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord for his support of my noble friend's description. Whether it was appropriate or not is not a matter for me to express an opinion on.

Lord Lloyd of Kilgerran

My Lords, while joining in the thanks given to the noble Lord the Minister for his very helpful statement, may I ask whether he agrees that to give statutory rights to service marks in the United Kingdom at the present time would help, to some small extent, to remove one of the obstacles to trade between the United Kingdom and the other EEC countries? While noting that the noble Lord the Minister considers that legislation on trade marks will be wanted in due course, having regard to developments in the EEC, may I repeat the question that was put by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway? In view of the help that statutory rights for service marks would give to industry, would he not be sympathetic to a short Bill to deal with this matter?

Lord Cockfield

My Lords, I do, indeed, sympathise with the general case which is being made here. But what the noble Lord himself says underlines the very point that I have made; namely, that this needs to be considered primarily in the EEC context. So far as special legislation is concerned, I think the noble Lord will appreciate that the possibility of the Government introducing a Bill of this kind, at a time when the legislative programme is so crowded, is a remote one.

Lord Davies of Leek

My Lords, we have talked rather pleasingly about a surplus of £7 billion, but is the noble Lord aware that in certain industries, such as the pharmaceutical industry, trade marks and patents arc of paramount importance and can be easily cheated on? There has even been talk in the Common Market for a long time that Frankfurt should become a headquarters where discussion of these matters can take place. I do not want to ask any further questions; I just want to press upon the Minister the fact that there is a definite urgency about the Question asked by the noble Lord opposite.

Lord Cockfield

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord and I agree with him that these matters need to he approached with a sense of urgency.

Lord Spens

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that a sense of urgency is also necessary because of the evolution of new technologies which are now gaining speed, and which we hope will result in the evolution of a lot of new service industries? Surely we ought to be protected, in the same way as these other countries are protected, by having some form of service marks protection.

Lord Cockfield

My Lords, I entirely support the objective of expanding the service industries, for which my department is particularly responsible. But the point which the noble Lord makes indicates the breadth of this problem and the depth of consideration that it requires.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, in view of the fact that a previous answer by the Minister indicated that there is a deficit of £2.2 million in manufacturing exports, when you take away oil, is this question not quite urgent enough to be included in the programme?

Lord Cockfield

My Lords, I suggest that the noble Lord is placing the wrong interpretation on the figures that I gave. The figures related to the actual exports of oil during the quarter in question.

Lord Lloyd of Kilgerran

My Lords, can the noble Lord give any indication as to when the proposed new legislation will be put before the House?

Lord Cockfield

My Lords, if the noble Lord is in a position to forecast the speed with which the European Community will move, he is in a much stronger position than I am.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that if you multiply the quarter's exports by four, which I understand you can do, you come to a deficit of approximately £2 million?

Lord Cockfield

My Lords, I really think that the noble Lord is straying from the question of service marks, which is an entirely different question from that of the export of oil. But perhaps I might write to him to clear up any misunderstanding that he may have on the question.