HL Deb 26 April 1982 vol 429 cc699-700

2.43 p.m.

Lord Gardiner

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government when they propose to seek parliamentary approval for the imposition by civil servants or others of capital punishment during an atomic war.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Elton)

My Lords, the imposition of such a penalty could only be by a power granted under emergency legislation which would itself have to be passed by Parliament. It would be for the Government of the day to decide whether circumstances justified the introduction of such legislation, whether they warranted the inclusion in it of such a power, and also, if they did, by whom that power would be exercised.

Lord Gardiner

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply, may I ask him whether, having regard to a view held by many that an atomic war is perhaps likely to arise either by human error or by a computer error, it is not rather rash to leave the passing of such legislation to an unspecified time?

Lord Elton

My Lords, circumstances change through history and Governments have to be free to change the response according to the changes in the circumstances. This sort of provision is kept continually under review, and I therefore cannot answer the noble Lord's question more precisely than I have done.

Lord Elwyn-Jones

My Lords, is it conceivable that anyone other than a judge could pass a sentence of death, whatever might happen thereafter?

Lord Elton

My Lords, the Question was, first, what the sentencing powers would be and, secondly, who would have to discharge the judicial function under circumstances in which normal arrangements could perhaps not continue.

Lord Paget of Northampton

My Lords, is not the question of capital punishment after nuclear war a little otiose? Surely there will be awfully few people left either to be hanged or to do the hanging?

Lord Elton

My Lords, the answer to a hypothetical question is itself always hypothetical. Whether it is also otiose, I cannot say.

Lord Hooson

My Lords, did the noble Lord, Lord Elton, say that the Government have contingency plans or draft legislation to allow people other than judges to pass the death penalty?

Lord Elton

My Lords, as I think I made clear, the Government necessarily have draft contingency plans to meet circumstances as they arise. But the circumstances are very varied and so therefore are the plans.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is it not the case that the draft contingency plans to which the noble Lord has referred in fact envisage the death penalty being passed and carried out by persons other than judges?

Lord Elton

My Lords, as I sought to make clear, the contingencies are so varied that I cannot specify what they may contain in every case.

Lord Gardiner

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that in his letter to me of 11th November the noble Lord, Lord Belstead, forecast regulations providing for trial, if practicable, by a jury of five persons and no appeal?

Lord Elton

My Lords, as I recall the letter, it referred to the circular ES3 1976, which was drafted and circulated by the previous Administration and which this Government decided should be made public. It was to that the noble Lord referred. Those provisions are kept under review.