NATO and Arms Reduction Proposals (Hansard, 21 April 1982)

§ Lord Brockway
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, at the last meeting of NATO's nuclear planning group Ministers noted that the various Soviet proposals for a freeze on intermediate range land-based nuclear missiles would perpetuate the Soviet monopoly in such missiles, because not a single SS20 would have to be destroyed, while NATO would be prevented from deploying any such weapons. Ministers also expressed strong support for the United States' commitment to negotiate an equitable and verifiable agreement on strategic nuclear weapons with the Soviet Union. A copy of the full text of the communiqué has been placed in the Library.

§ Lord Brockway
My Lords, is the Minister aware that many of us will find the earlier part of his Answer disappointing? Is he aware that, when the peace mission initiated by the Quakers went to the Soviet Union in January, we urged unilateral action by the Soviet Government and had discussions with the authorities about it? Is it not the case that President Brezhnev has now proposed three unilateral actions: first, a freeze of present Soviet nuclear weapons in Europe; secondly, a suspension of the planned replacement of the old SS missiles and, thirdly, a reduction 538 of Soviet nuclear weapons in advance of any agreed East-West plan? Is it not desirable that we should seek offers of hope, rather than to reject these proposals out of hand?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, I am aware of the visit to Moscow, of which the noble Lord was a member, and I am also aware of the suggestions that he made —and I am very glad that he did—for unilateral action by the Soviet Union. I think that only the third of his points—namely, the offer of a reduction—can really come under the heading of a unilateral gesture. That will be discussed, and is being discussed, in the talks which have started in Geneva, and, so far as talks on strategic weapons are concerned, they will start this year.

§ Lord Peart
My Lords, would the Government agree that it might be helpful to make a positive response to President Brezhnev's offer as a stimulus to negotiations to reduce—which we all want—the terrifying stocks of nuclear weapons on both sides of the Atlantic? May I ask whether the Government have noted the emergence of the freeze movement in the United States, led by such distinguished figures as George Cannon and Robert McNamara, and whether or not they will lend their support to that movement?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, so far as positive responses or positive moves are concerned, I should like to draw the noble Lord's attention to the proposal of President Reagan, which is supported absolutely fully in the communiqué of the NATO nuclear planning group, which I would ask him to look at in the Library and which was, for short, called the zero option. That offered to holdup the whole of the Pershing 2 and cruise missile modernisation plan, if the Soviet Union would destroy its SS20s and other missiles. We have no such missiles at the present time. So that, so far as responses are concerned, I think it is true to say that NATO and the Americans have taken the initiative. I think it is because we are negotiating from a position of strength that we are beginning to get—and I am glad that we are—replies and responses from the Soviet Union. So far as the peace movement goes, we have, of course, noted the peace movement in the USA. I would merely say in relation to that, and to the peace movement in this country, that I think we are all in the peace movement, but I believe that most of us feel that the cause of peace will be best served by multilateral disarmament with proper verification.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, does not Mr. Brezhnev's so-called offer, which is applauded by the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, amount to no more and no less than a proposal to perpetuate Soviet superiority, both in nuclear and in conventional weapons, for a long time to come?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, to be generous, I would add to what my noble friend has said that the third point made by the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, would indicate a slight lessening of that Soviet preponderance.

§ The Earl of Onslow
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the peace movement's success in the Soviet Union was very heavily stamped upon by Russian secret policemen rugger tackling its advocates when unfurling banners saying "Soviet nuclear disarmament"? Does this not slightly show that the peace movement is only against us and is not against the Soviet Union?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, I am not an expert on rugby in the Soviet Union.

§ Lord Mayhew
My Lords, may I ask the noble Viscount to explain to the House the reasons given by the Americans for adjourning the negotiations on these weapons for two months against the wishes of the Russians? May I also ask him whether or not he agrees that the reasons given were surprisingly insubstantial?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, I had not understood, as the noble Lord suggests, that the adjournment of the talks—I gather that in nearly all permanent talks there are adjournments—was entirely a USA proposal. I note that the noble Lord is not nodding. However, I can assure him that the adjournment, perhaps because the United States likes its Easter recess, as we do, though to a greater extent, has no other significance than that. The talks, in spite of the problems in Poland and elsewhere, are on and will continue on, subject to a short adjournment.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that what seems to be happening on both sides is that somebody makes an offer, the other side ignores it and makes its own offer, and that the other side then ignores that offer? Would it not be a good idea on some occasion actually to respond to an offer?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, I think it would be an excellent idea if the Soviet Union were to respond to some of the suggestions we have made to stop tilting the balance against us to the degree that they have over recent years.

§ Lord Brockway
My Lords, regarding the second part of the Minister's original Answer, may I ask him whether any date has now been fixed for the strategic talks between the USA and the Soviet Union and whether he has any information about a response from America to Mr. Brezhnev's proposal that he should meet President Reagan in the autumn after the renewed United Nations Assembly on Disarmament?

§ Viscount Trenchard
My Lords, no date for the commencement of the START talks has been announced, but it is believed, and wished, by the United States that they should begin this year. I cannot give any further information on the possible meeting between President Reagan and Mr. Brezhnev.