HL Deb 18 May 1981 vol 420 cc723-5

2.42 p.m.

Lord Gardiner

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether authorisation has been given, and if so by whom, for information from the Department of Transport's computerised driver and vehicle licensing records to be communicated to the Department of Health and Social Security for its own purposes.

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, the Department of Health and Social Security are not allowed access to any drivers' records held by the Department of Transport. However, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport does have a statutory obligation under Regulation 15 of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 1971 to supply details of a vehicle and its registered keeper from his department's vehicle records to anyone who can show reasonable cause. On the basis of this legal obligation, nominated officials in the Department of Health and Social Security are allowed to request information from vehicle records for the purpose of investigating possible criminal offences. There is no link between the drivers and vehicles records at the driver and vehicle licensing centre.

Lord Gardiner

My Lords, while I thank the noble Lord for that reply, may I ask him whether the 1975 Government's White Paper did not indicate that administrative arrangements had been made to prevent information collected by one Government department—personal information on a computer—being transferred to a different department for a different purpose? Have the Govenment departed from these arrangements?

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, what we need to have clear here is that the information that can be requested is not about the driver at all; it is only about who is the owner and what is his address. No other information is given at all. Information can be given only about the vehicle itself and its keeper.

Lord Elwyn-Jones

My Lords, is there not a longstanding and salutary rule that information supplied by the citizen to a Government department for one purpose is communicated for that purpose and for that purpose alone, and cannot be transferred for administrative or other convenience, to any other Government department?

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, that may well be so and the noble and learned Lord has the advantage of me in putting it that way. If it should be that what we are being asked here in any way implies an intrusion of privacy on the individual, then I would respectfully suggest that the Answer I gave is the correct one—that the giving simply of the name and address of the keeper, the owner, of the vehicle does not really depart from that basic principle.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that the information which involves registration numbers and the owners or keepers of vehicles has not been regarded as private and personal information, and indeed if it were not available to the police it would be very difficult for some crimes to be discovered? Also, is it not correct that the man who is now standing trial as the "Yorkshire Ripper" was discovered by that means?

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend and would answer, yes, that is so.

Lord Gardiner

My Lords, is not the person entitled to know in what cases the personal information he gives to a Government department will be used for other purposes by a different Government department?

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, I would have to come back to my original Answer and say that what in fact is being given is the name and address of the owner, and nothing beyond that. In those circumstances, I would not have thought there would be cause for concern.

Lord Pargiter

My Lords, would it not be proper for one Government department requesting such information, or any information, from another department to say for what purpose they required the information and not merely to ask for it?—because it could be used for any purpose once it has been transferred.

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, if the information requested is of a kind other than that which I have said can be readily given, then they would have to show reasonable cause. I think that is the safeguard.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Elwyn-Jones, enunciated the rule that information collected by one Government department for one purpose shall not be transferred to another Government department for some totally different purpose, subject to the exception that where it is provided by law that the second Government department may receive that information it shall be done. Is it not a fact that the regulations the noble Lord mentioned in his original Answer have been on the statute book now for well over 15 years, and therefore people giving this information know for what purpose it is intended; and provided the purposes for which it is used are limited to those specified, then anyone supply ing information knows exactly how it is going to be used?

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his interpretation, which may well be right.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Earl Ferrers)

My Lords, I think we should move on to the next business.

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