§ 2.41 p.m.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the general disquiet that discounted air tickets are available only from "bucket shops", they will inform IATA that they are no longer able to accept the IATA ruling that recognised legitimate agents should not sell discounted tickets; and whether they will make a statement.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Trade (Lord Trefgarne)My Lords, as I have explained to the noble Baroness on several occasions, the solution to this problem lies elsewhere.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, would the noble Lord be kind enough to repeat that? I really did not hear what he said.
§ Lord TrefgarneMy Lords, I will read the Answer again with pleasure. I said that, as I have explained to the noble Baroness on several occasions, the solution to this problem lies elsewhere.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, is the Minister aware that Mr. Hammarskjold said the other day that IATA is powerless to stop the "bucket shop" trade in illegally discounted air tickets while Britain is lax in applying the law? Arising from that, may I ask the Minister whether it is not true to say that ABTA and IATA agents in this country are liable not only to the IATA rules but to the law of this country? As both IATA and the Government seem to be "passing the buck" one to the other on this, will they not get together so that everybody may have the advantage of cheap tickets?
§ Lord TrefgarneMy Lords, the legal position is very far from clear in this matter and there are additional difficulties about obtaining the necessary evidence; but if the noble Baroness will cast her mind back to last week, when I answered an earlier Question from her on this matter, she will recall that I declared my determination to see that the law in this matter is properly upheld.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, can the Minister be a little more forthcoming on the position and the proximity of the Government to this particular matter? Can he give the House any information about the meeting which I believe is to be held on 5th February between the Retail Agents Council and British Airways to discuss the report of a working party which they set up to look into this matter? Is he further aware that I was told that both sides have previously sought the opinion of the Government on the desirability of having such a meeting and as to the possible legality of what might come out of it? Could he tell us how the Government arc connected with this meeting?
§ Lord TrefgarneMy Lords, the Government are not concerned; they are not attending that meeting. As for the precise legal position which the noble Baroness put to me earlier, I think I would be unwise to offer your Lordships a considered legal opinion on this very complex subject, at any rate at Question Time.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that we hope that within the next few weeks we will have an opportunity of discussing this in more detail so that we can find out how much the Government are concerned to act on this matter?
§ Lord TrefgarneMy Lords, I would welcome a debate of that nature. I notice that the noble Baroness has entered the ballot for a Short Debate to be held soon, and that will certainly give me an opportunity to expand in more detail on our policy.
§ Baroness Elliot of HarwoodMy Lords, does the noble Lord realise that by not taking decisions, by not suggesting that IATA rules should be changed, the Government are penalising the travel agents who obey the law, who are members of IATA and carry out the rules? The people who do not, the "bucket shops", are profiting by this, which many of us think is most unfair.
§ Lord TrefgarneMy Lords, I absolutely agree with my noble friend that the present situation is highly unsatisfactory, and I am moving to do what I can to resolve it.