HL Deb 23 January 1980 vol 404 cc434-6

2.46 p.m.

Lord GRIDLEY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that members of the National Association of Head Teachers are being urged not to back fund-raising schemes by parents and industry which aim to provide classroom books and equipment to offset the effects of economies by local authorities.

The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of EDUCATION and SCIENCE (Baroness Young)

My Lords, I am aware of the advice given by the National Association of Head Teachers to its members. This is an issue on which the association is, of course, free to express its opinion, but in my view it is very regrettable: it would be a most retrograde step if parents and others wishing to make voluntary contributions to school funds were prevented or discouraged from doing so.

Lord GRIDLEY

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for her Answer. However, is not this instruction rather hard to understand? If public-spirited people, such as the parents of children in schools and in industry, out of their own pockets are prepared to offset cuts in grants in these difficult times in order to purchase books and school equipment, should not they be praised and thanked rather than discouraged?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, as I hope my original Answer made clear, the association is, of course, perfectly free to express what opinion it chooses. I merely give our opinion. We believe that, if parents wish to contribute to school funds, it is perfectly right for them to do so. Indeed, it has been a practice that has gone on for many years.

Baroness DAVID

My Lords, will not the Minister distinguish between parents making gifts to school funds for amenities and things of that sort, and making gifts for the basic essentials of education, such as books and equipment? Surely under the Education Act 1944 it is the duty of local education authorities to provide efficient education. Will the Minister not agree that there is this very sharp difference?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, the noble Baroness is quite right in saying that the Education Act 1944 lays a duty on local education authorities to make provision for sufficient and efficient education in their areas. I should also explain that in the Government's financial proposals relating to the rate support grant settlement for 1980–81 they have provided for real standards of provision in the broad expenditure category, which includes capitation allowances—that is, amounts allowable for books and other teaching materials required—to be 2 per cent. higher than they were in 1978–79. This in no way alters the fact that where parents wish to contribute voluntarily to school funds it is helpful for them to do so. I would entirely accept that it would be quite wrong if any pressure were brought on a parent to contribute. That would be another matter; but voluntary contributions have existed for many years.

Baroness DAVID

My Lords, while welcoming what the Minister said about the extra money for capitation in the rate support grant, may I ask how she explains that, so far as the information goes, so far, apparently, the cuts in local authorities average about 10 per cent. for capitation?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, the fact is that we have no firm information on what is happening; there is quite a bit of impressionistic information around. But the truth of the matter is that, when having to make economies, local authorities find it easier to make them on matters such as capitation grants rather than on other matters which, of course, would require a much longer period of time.

Lord ORR-EWING

My Lords, despite the present restrictions, has my noble friend observed that local authorities increased their staff by over 30,000 in 1979? Will she continue to urge that wastage in the number of local authority officers is a better solution, for it reduces the number of employees, than taking this out on the education service and the children '?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, I would entirely support the remarks made by my noble friend. We believe that the education service, and particularly the supply of books, is an extremely important matter.

Lord MURRAY of GRAVESEND

My Lords, in view of the Government's exhortations that the cuts should be fairly spread, would the noble Baroness agree that it is now about time that the Government abandoned their ludicrous scheme to subsidise independent schools under the guise of buying places?

Baroness YOUNG

My Lords, I think that that is rather wide of the original Question.