§ 3.32 p.m.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the presence of Soviet warships, including aircraft carriers, in the Mediterranean would justify review of the decision to abandon our association with Malta.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, Her Majesty's Government decided in the 1974 Defence Review, following consultations with our NATO allies, that the United Kingdom's defence effort should be concentrated as a first priority upon those areas in which we could 1272 contribute most effectively to the security of the United Kingdom and the NATO Alliance. The decision not to seek extension of the agreement under which British Forces are based in Malta reflected this reallocation of effort. The present level of Soviet naval forces in the Mediterranean does not call that decision into question.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that the decision, which was taken quite some time ago, was taken in quite different circumstances from those of today? The Russians are now in the Mediterranean; on the northern side of Africa we have Colonel Gaddafi of Libya who is hostile; and we have Mintoff on the other side of the Mediterranean who is resentful. Are we to understand that in the prevailing circumstances we shall abandon any possibility of maintaining the security of the West in the Mediterranean?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, to quote my Answer given a few seconds ago:
The present level of Soviet naval forces in the Mediterranean does not call that decision into question".I would remind my noble friend that the Government of Malta has declared that after 31st March this year these facilities will be available neither to the Warsaw Pact countries nor to NATO. In the meantime, negotiations between Malta and the Community continue, especially in regard to textiles and similar matters. I see no reason to doubt that Malta's connection with Europe will not continue and, indeed, increase. It is for future circumstances and also for the Maltese Government and its people to decide what the military and other arrangements, if any, are to be with Europe and NATO.
§ Lord CARRINGTONMy Lords, having had some experience of negotiating about bases in Malta, and having a certain amount of sympathy with those who would not seek to restart such negotiations, will the Government and the noble Lord give an undertaking that NATO and Her Majesty's Government will not be prepared to see the facilities in Malta fall into unfriendly hands, or potentially unfriendly hands?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, it is not the first time that I have shared the noble Lord's sympathies, especially in regard to certain negotiations. As to the very important point he made about our continuing interest in there being proper non-alignment in Malta—and, indeed, in the Mediterranean, if that is possible (a policy which the Maltese Government has said is its official policy)—certainly we shall be constantly in touch with that Government with a view to ensuring that any change in the situation does not adversely affect the security of the West and of this country.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that I find his Answer—I am not blaming him for it—not only disappointing but highly dangerous? Does he imagine that the Soviets will ask for Mintoff's permission to obtain facilities which they may desire in Malta? They will take them when they want them. In view of the position in Cyprus and the somewhat uncertain position in Turkey, would it not be better for NATO to give this matter some consideration? Will my noble friend suggest that NATO might look at the subject again?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I am sorry to be both disappointing and dangerous at the same time. I never find my noble friend disappointing, but sometimes I do find him dangerous. As to the very serious point that he has raised, he has, of course, referred to the wider considerations for NATO—the shield of democracy in the West—of certain recent events in the Near and Middle East. There is no doubt that we shall need to examine and, indeed, we are examining very carefully—we are assessing once more—precisely what we and our partners in the West should do in relation to these events, and that certainly includes the Mediterranean.
§ Lord HANKEYMy Lords, all the same, will my noble friend not reconsider the point pressed by the noble Lord, Lord Shinwell? Will the Government bear in mind that in regard to any area where the Western Powers move out, the Eastern Powers seem to move in? The naval mission in India at present is a Russian one; the Russians have a naval base in India. Aden, which we have left, is now the principal Russian base in the 1274 Indian Ocean. The Russians have had bases in the Red Sea. Will the noble Lord not consider that it would be as well for us somehow to keep a hold on this and not simply to rely on a vague undertaking by Mr. Mintoff that he does not want to belong to either side?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I do not think that we ever find Mr. Mintoff vague; he certainly speaks for his people. In that sense we must defer to his and his Government's decisions, and seek to maintain a considerable friendship with Malta, a George Cross island. There are links between us of a psychological as well as an economic nature, and we must seek to build on them. However, I certainly do not underestimate what the noble Lord, Lord Hankey, and the noble Lord, Lord Shinwell, have said, in that it is necessary—in fact, it is proceeding—for this country and its friends and allies to assess the position which has developed in the last year or so in the areas we have discussed today.