§ 3.8 p.m.
§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what action they propose to take with 184 the British Railways Board and the Post Office Corporation with regard to the recent case of public rape at Waterloo Station.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, DEPARTMENT of the ENVIRONMENT (Baroness Stedman)My Lords, while the Government deplore this whole incident, I am assured that the British Railways Board take all reasonable precautions to safeguard passengers. Waterloo and other main-line stations are permanently manned and patrolled by British Transport Police. Noble Lords will know that the offender in question was arrested and convicted. Moreover, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has asked the Railways Board to consider whether any additional safeguarding measures can be taken.
§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIEMy Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply, and am very glad to hear that the Government have asked the Railways Board to consider additional measures. Is the noble Baroness aware that widespread reports in respectable newspapers said that a number of British Railways workers and a number of Post Office workers watched the rape until complained to by a passenger, whereupon they locked the door and sent for the police, while the lady in question was being raped and was screaming? Would she therefore join with me in condemning this callous and cowardly attitude, and in saying that public servants have a duty, public as well as moral, to come to the aid of passengers and citizens in distress, such as this lady was, and ought not simply to ignore it and send for the police? Would she also agree that such an attitude and such an action at a great railway terminus in London is a disgrace to the country and to the many decent people who are employed in the public service and who condemn this attitude?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I am in somewhat of a difficulty in giving a very full answer to the noble Lord's supplementary questions on this, because there is a possibility of some action being taken by the men's union with the Press Council, or through other means. The report in the papers has been denied by the Post Office workers involved. We 185 have also been unable to find any railwaymen who were there at the time of the incident. There are also problems in so far as the inspector of the British Transport Police says that he was misquoted by the newspapers in question in the comments which he made about the action of the crew. I think that perhaps it might be best not to go further than that this afternoon, because I understand that the NUR and the Post Office Workers' Union are taking legal advice as to what they can do about the Press reports which have appeared.
§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIEMy Lords, is it not curious that no denial was issued until this Question was asked in this House?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I am not aware of whether any denial has been issued or not. I only know that the men in question have taken exception, with the support of their unions, to the statements made that were in two newspapers and action is now being considered.
§ Viscount THURSOMy Lords, notwithstanding the gravity of the offence or the apparently moronic behaviour (as reported in the newspapers) of the bystanders, is the noble Baroness aware that it was claimed in mitigation that railway carriages in Victoria Station are frequently used as doss houses by vagrants? Are the Government happy with the situation where our rolling stock provides a form of public doss house?
§ Baroness STEDMANNo, my Lords, we are not happy. We have problems with vagrants, in particular at Waterloo Station. We have them to a greater or lesser degree in other main railway stations; but at Waterloo with, I gather, something like 14 ways to get into the station, it is difficult to lock off any of the entrances at any periods of the day. There is the problem of supervision. We have 20 British Transport police attached to the police station on Waterloo Station who are continually patrolling the station throughout the day and night, and they patrol those trains where they are aware there are likely to be incidents and the problems with vagrants which British Rail are trying to overcome; and here British Transport police seem to 186 spend most of their time trying to eject from one entrance vagrants who then find their way into another. Until we can find some satisfactory way of sealing off the 14 entrances—with all the difficulties that go with that, with passengers and the control of mail and parcels on the station—we are going to have problems. Unfortunately, the incidence of vagrancy at Waterloo Station is now such as to become the background to all that goes on there. Regrettably, in this particular instance it was not recognised for the offence that it was.
Lord BRUCE of DONINGTONMy Lords, will my noble friend bear in mind that it is not uncommon for published reports in newspapers of incidents to bear very little relation to what happened?
§ Baroness STEDMANYes, my Lords; I think that is the point at issue which the men's unions are looking at now.
§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIEMy Lords, will the noble Baroness publish the results of the inquiry?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, there is no inquiry as such. It is the unions acting on behalf of their members who will give them advice whether they take action either against the newspapers concerned or through the Press Council. It is not a matter for the Government or British Rail or the Post Office Board. It is the men's unions.
§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIEMy Lords, is the noble Baroness telling me that the Government have no intention of finding out more about this appalling situation and of doing more to police the station at Waterloo?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, as I have already said, we have asked the British Railways Board to carry out a review as to what other safeguards can be instituted at places such as Waterloo. In due course, they will come back and tell us whether, within their resources, they are able to do any more, or what other resources they need. If that information is forthcoming I will pass it on, but it is not an inquiry in the Government sense following which a report will be published.
§ Baroness GAITSKELLMy Lords, should we not be careful about letting our indignation run away with us? These people are homeless. Should we not be as angry about that as we are about what we are discussing today?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, the noble Baroness has a point. We are all concerned with the problem of the homeless people in London, and have expressed this concern on both sides of the House on many occasions. Some of these are the people who frequent Waterloo Station and other stations.