HL Deb 07 March 1979 vol 399 cc175-8

2.47 p.m.

Lord BRUCE of DONINGTON

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that, as at 1st January 1979, there were 278 proposals from the EEC Commission, upon which the European Parliament had been requested and had given its Opinion, which still awaited a decision by the Council of the EEC; and whether they will state what action they propose to take within the EEC Council progressively to reduce the grossly excessive arrears.

The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)

My Lords, some of these proposals originated many years ago and are no longer under active consideration. Decisions in the Council broadly keep pace with the flow of new proposals, but at any given time a considerable number of proposals are undergoing the normal process of consideration and revision in the Council machinery.

Lord BRUCE of DONINGTON

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that the 278 outstanding matters go as far back as 1968 and that no fewer than 103 of them relate to 1978 and 53 to 1977, with the rest spread back over the eight years? Is he aware that the 278 matters which are referred to in the Question are after the exclusion by the Commission of those matters that are considered no longer to be relevant? Is he further aware that it might be considered to be for the better expedition of public business in the EEC if the proceedings of the Council were held in public, so the people of Europe could know what is happening instead of being treated at the hands of the various parties to a series of leaked reports that are regularly issued in Brussels after each Council meeting?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, in reply to the first point made by my noble friend, as the Council receives some 650 proposals in a year, and I understand disposes of about the same number, it is normal that at any particular time there should be 100 or 200 under consideration, and, given that some are no longer under active consideration, the number of proposals outstanding would not seem to be unduly high. However, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State and others have urged, and continue to urge, that these procedures should be constantly looked at with a view to speeding them up, and my noble friend has a point. As to the question of making Council meetings public—that is, meetings of Ministers—that is another question which would need to be looked at quite separately.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, can the Minister say how many of these proposals have been stuck with the Committee of Permanent Representatives and never been considered by the Council at all?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, the Committee of Permanent Representatives, as the noble Lord is of course aware, looks at all these proposals and is empowered to extract those of less than major importance, which they then propose should be dealt with, as it were, outside the procedure. That saves a good deal of time, but even before these, if I may call them such, less than major questions are considered, our own Ministers have to approve. The procedure the noble Lords suggests is in fact current. It is for inquiry to see whether that can be made even more effective, but I grant him the point that this is a very valuable way of saving time while at the same time not infringing on the necessary right of veto on questions of major national concern.

Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONE

Talking about leaks, my Lords, though spelt perhaps in a slightly different way from those referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, may I ask the Minister to convey without the smallest disrespect to the Commission or disloyalty to the Community that, like all bureaucracies, the Commission sometimes tends to make itself ridiculous?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, it would be a very bold and experienced parliamentarian who for one moment would hazard the opinion that no commission or committee has not at some time or other contrived to make itself look a little ridiculous, and I have no doubt that the European institutions have a sufficient sense of normality as well as of humour to agree with that. As to the noble and learned Lord's reference to leaks, I am in the happy position of knowing everything about Welsh leaks and nothing at all about the other type!

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that in his original Answer he used the very familiar phrase that these matters were constantly under review? Is he further aware that for a very long time that has been the familiar kind of reply from Ministers of the Crown in the United Kingdom Parliament? Are clichés of that character all that we are to get from the EEC?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

I very much hope not, my Lords. I would hope that any parliamentary assembly, present and prospective, would constantly keep under review matters of national and international importance.

Lord BALFOUR of INCHRYE

My Lords, would it not be better for the standing of the EEC in this country if we could have a holiday from what I would term minor irritations which are put forward, which interfere with our usual forms of national life, such as those involving the delivery of milk, or the abolition of duty-free shops? These matters are of comparatively minor importance, but they do the EEC's reputation no good at all in this country.

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, I note very carefully and appreciatively what the noble Lord has said. There is indeed a body of opinion in this and in other countries in the Community which would agree with him. The Community is developing a thoughtful aggregation of institutions, constantly keeping under review matters such as those raised by the noble Lord, Lord Balfour of Inchrye.