§ 2.40 p.m.
§ Lord BEAUMONT of WHITLEYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the note by Mr. J. Peeler of the Ministry of Transport referred to in the Guardian of 30th October represents Government thinking.
707§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, my right honourable friend has repeatedly explained in another place and elsewhere that Her Majesty's Government will not seek the authority of Parliament for an increase in the maximum laden weight of lorries unless he is satisfied that such an increase would be consistent with the needs of safety and the protection of the environment.
§ Lord BEAUMONT of WHITLEYMy Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that satisfactory Answer, but may I ask for an assurance that, if there is to be an inquiry into the matter, that inquiry will be allowed to discuss such matters as smaller lorries, more restricted routes and other ways of controlling the juggernauts, which the Civil Service apparently does not wish us to discuss?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, so far as concerns an inquiry into the question of larger juggernauts on the road, my right honourable friend is still considering whether or not there should be such an inquiry, and until he has made up his mind there is nothing to announce. But if there were to be an inquiry then the inquiry would take note of all the views that were put to it.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, while the Secretary of State may not have reached a conclusion on this matter, is it not fairly obvious that some of his civil servants have; and does this note not reveal a brazen attempt to manipulate public opinion in favour of the road lobby? While not in any way seeking to undermine the freedom of civil servants to hold political opinions, would not the noble Baroness agree that it is most improper for them to use public money to promulgate them?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I think the noble Lord is not quite correct in his assumptions about this leak of a Civil Service document. My right honourable friend, in the light of an article in The Times drawing attention to the fact that there was a possibility that it might be economically and environmentally desirable if we had heavier loads—not necessarily bigger loads, but heavier ones—asked, as is the custom, for his senior civil servants in charge of the various directorates within the Department to 708 give him views on their particular aspects of the matter. The views presented by Mr. Peeler, which were unfortunately leaked to the Press, were only one of many sets of views which my right honourable friend had in his advice. We are not content, and nor is my right honourable friend, to leave unexplored the source of the leak. It has caused unnecessary confusion within the Department concerning my right honourable friend's own policy when he has repeatedly and clearly stated it; and it has also cast unjust reflections on the personal honour of Mr. Peeler, since those who used the leaked document have drawn inferences about his attitude which, in the light of what happened within the Department, are justified neither logically nor morally.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARY-LEBONEMy Lords, while I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont of Whitley, on having gone as far away from the Liberal Party as he conveniently can in this House, may I ask whether the noble Baroness would not agree that the Government are as full of leaks of an indiscreet character, often from Cabinet Ministers or their private secretaries, as a colander is full of holes?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I would not completely accept that, and I would not accept that this Government are alone in experiencing leaks.
§ Lord DAVIES of LEEKMy Lords, while accepting the jocularities of the last speaker, may I say there is undoubtedly a point in this information about heavier loads. Is my noble friend aware that the damage caused by heavy loads to drainage, gas pipes, water pipes, and electrical apparatus under the earth is costing the local authorities millions of pounds, to repair damage which nobody pays for except the local taxpayer and the Government? Will she see that a survey of local authorities' drainage systems and under-earth systems is made and investigated before consenting to much heavier loads on our roads?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, the last sentence of my noble friend returned to the Question under discussion. Certainly research has shown that the most important factor for road damage is the weight per axle. With the appropriate 709 number and spacing of axles, heavier loads than the present maximum can be carried with the same or less weight per axle. That is certainly not quite as simple as it sounds. There are problems concerned with it. Containers generally are being carried on our roads less fully laden than they would be if greater laden weights were permitted. We have to look at this and our policy in the Department is clear. We are not in favour of bigger and heavier loads and we are concerned about their environmental effect.