§ 2.57 p.m.
§ The Earl of KINNOULLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are contemplating Stansted as the third London airport in the 1980s.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, the White Paper on Airports Policy suggests that traffic at Stansted might increase to about 4 million passengers a year by 1990. The airport would therefore fulfil only a modest role in meeting air traffic demand in the London area in the 1980s.
§ The Earl of KINNOULLMy Lords, though I thank the noble Lord for that reply, is he aware of the very deep concern at the Government's apparent lack of decision, even of vision, as to the importance of determining a third London airport policy? Is he also aware that the Answer he gave on Monday to his noble friend Lord Boston appeared both to be complacent and to reveal what could be described as a policy of irresponsible drift in reaching this no doubt unpalatable decision? Can he say what new body is being set up by the Government to examine the possibility of a third London airport, what are its terms of reference and when it is likely to report?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, first I cannot accept the view that the Government are complacent. We are not going to be hurried into a decision because, as became abundantly clear on last Monday's Question, nobody wants an airport anywhere near them; and there is no place—except, perhaps, somewhere beyond Ultima Thule—where people might accept it. There is a public inquiry proposed but the structure and programme are not yet firm.
The terms of reference of this committee were explained in the White Paper on Airports Policy and the task of the proposed committee would be to assist in the formulation of advice on future airports policy; but this will not replace the process of consultation initiated with the Airports Strategy Consultation Document 1975–6, which the Government regard as an essential part of the development policy.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, did the noble Lord say at the beginning of 315 that supplementary answer that there was to be a new public inquiry into the possibility of a requirement for a third London airport?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMNo, my Lords, I did not say that. I must get this plain. I have been handed this further information. Government policy is designed to lead to the development of air services in the regions, which will increasingly enable those living outside the South-East to fly direct to their destinations and will thus ease the pressure on London Airport. Since the local authorities have to be consulted, this demands the creation of some machinery for consultation at this stage.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, that is all very well, but can the noble Lord tell us what this machinery is going to be? He said—and my noble friends behind me confirm that they heard this—that there was to be a public inquiry. If that is so, perhaps the noble Lord can indicate what is the nature of this inquiry, whether it will have any public aspect and whether members of the public will be able to contribute to it.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I suggest that since this is a matter of interest, the noble Earl might care to question me again in rather more precise terms. It is early days yet and no decision about membership has been made; but an inquiry must take place.
§ Lord THOMASMy Lords, disregarding what the noble Lord may or may not have said previously, is he aware that there is very active consideration being given to the construction of an airport well away from London to the West where it can be linked by high-speed trains to the centre of London?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I am aware of that and I believe that this House will discuss it this week.
§ Lord BOSTON of FAVERSHAMMy Lords, will my noble friend accept that his replies on Monday to the questions concerning Maplin or Foulness were, far from being complacent, in fact a robust confirmation of the Government's admirable policy on this matter, and that their decision on Maplin, which was, if I may 316 say so with respect, perfectly correct, followed the most thorough, the most prolonged and the most painstaking scrutiny that any planning decision has ever had?
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that there is some urgency about this matter because the impression given to guests and friends who come from overseas, especially to the third terminal at Heathrow, is so shocking that it gives us a bad name from the point of view of tourism and travelling?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, that is another question. Traffic at Heathrow is very great and problems arise therefrom.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend, as I seem to have been doing from time immemorial, whether before coming to any decision about Stansted the Government will investigate the possibilities of all the other sites that have ever been mentioned, particularly those which were reported on by the Roskill Commission?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I remember that on Monday I said that three possibilities were being considered: one, an extension of Stansted; two, the use of a military airport; and, three, some other site. I will bear in mind what my noble friend has said.
§ Lord NUGENT of GUILDFORDMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that his statement that he proposes to consult the local authorities will be welcomed; but is he also aware that the local authorities have already expressed very strong opinions to him about the development of Stansted, about the development of Heathrow and about the extension of Gatwick—and that all have been adverse? Will he, therefore, kindly take into account those opinions already expressed before asking them for any more?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMYes, my Lords. That is another reason why marking time is taking place at Stansted while these things are being considered.
§ The Earl of KINNOULLMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether among the 317 sheaf of notes that he has, there appears the Government's best estimate of the date when the third London airport facilities will be needed, bearing in mind the existing facilities mentioned in the White Paper?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, 1990 seems to be the date when there will be a time for concern.
§ Lord DAVIES of LEEKMy Lords, has my noble friend noticed that everybody wants to travel by air and to get away quickly, but that nobody in this House or any other place wants an airport near to where they live?