§ 2.53 p.m.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have taken any steps, either alone or in conjunction with like-minded persons, to effect a cease-fire and reconciliation between Somalia and Ethiopia, in view of the dangers this war presents to international shipping round the Horn of Africa.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH Office (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary said in another place on 18th January, we are working actively for a negotiated settlement. We are in touch with Western and other Governments on this matter, including the Soviet Union, and with both parties to the conflict. We support OAU mediation efforts and would like to see the conflict settled within an African context in accordance with OAU principles and without outside interference. We should be prepared to support an approach to the Security Council if this seemed likely to help to work out a basis for a settlement.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply, which is some consolation for what I feel. Does the Minister think it might be advisable for the United Nations openly to suggest conciliation backed up by aid to promote the agrarian side of the Somali infrastructure? The main trouble stems from the fact that the Somalis are a nomadic race; they cross their borders in order to find food. That is why Somalia is tending to extend her frontiers. It is really positive assistance to Somalia on the agrarian side that would help to solve this problem.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, as I indicated, we are considering with other Governments the possibility of United Nations action in this field. Naturally, we place priority for the 1419 handling of this situation, as an African situation, on the Organisation for African Unity. But, as I said, we are actively considering the possibilities of involvement by the Security Council. On the second point made by the noble Baroness, certainly, we are also considering favourably the extension of developmental aid of the kind that she described to Somalia and, indeed, to a number of other countries similarly situated.
§ Baroness ELLESMy Lords, does the Minister agree that, although the Organisation for African Unity rightly wishes to contain African problems within its own organisation, this is no longer an African problem? It is a question of intervention by the Soviet Union with arms, weapons and men. Is it not time that the Government and other Western European nations for once spoke out for the West and took this matter to the Security Council?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the United Kingdom is not alone in considering that course. Other countries are involved and the reason other countries are involved, particularly in the West, is that we regard it precisely as being, if not already, certainly in danger of becoming, an international and, indeed, an inter-continental crisis. We have made our view that there is very grave danger of a situation such as this escalating into an East-West crisis, with possible grave effects on détente, crystal clear to those involved from outside. We repeat once more that detente is indivisible; that if it is not promoted in Africa, it can hardly flourish in Europe. That is a message that we hope those who, for whatever reason, are involved from outside, including the Russians and the Cubans, will consider seriously. With our friends and allies, we have been pressing that point upon their attention. I believe that the point made by the noble Baroness is very fully taken into account by the West.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, is not the real difficulty that, when empires became nation States in Africa, the old boundaries persisted, while in cases like that of Somalia, it had people outside those boundaries? If that is the deeper reason, would Her Majesty's Government seek in the Security Council not only to 1420 condemn all military and arms aid to any part of Africa, but also to indicate to the OAU that we would support immediate mediation in this conflict and a longer-term consideration of the problem of boundaries?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSYes, my Lords, I do not think that I could disagree with anything that my noble friend has said, certainly on the last point concerning our support for mediation. As the House knows, there is an attempt at OAU mediation in this area, led by Nigeria. We have strongly supported that initiative and shall continue to do so.
Certainly, persisting problems arise from the dichotomy between the old boundaries, which were based on the colonial imperia, and the new independencies. Noble Lords who, like myself, wish to study this matter more closely can do no better than read the excellent volume produced by the father of the noble Baroness who asked this Question. She has made her own copy available to me and I should be perfectly prepared to act as an amicus curiae for anyone who wishes to borrow this from her.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, while it may be too much to hope that, as the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, suggested, all great Powers would agree not to supply weapons to those involved in conflicts in the continent of Africa, did the Minister see the extremely thoughtful leading article in The Times the other day entitled, A Monroe Doctrine for Africa, in which it was suggested that at the very least the great powers might be induced to agree among themselves not to intervene in these conflicts with personnel? Would this be a matter which he could take up with the OAU and with our allies in the United Nations?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I certainly agree that the article in question was a constructive one, and I see no reason why such a hopeful suggestion should not be examined by all who wish to see the possibility of a stable situation being created in that part of the world, and indeed in Africa. It is the suggestion that Africa as a whole should be regarded as a continent where only 1421 negotiation can solve the manifold problems of frontier and racial difficulties there.
As to arms, I regret that I did not address myself to the second point contained in my noble friend's question. We supply no arms to either side. We deplore the action of anybody who is arming either side in this conflict, and we have said so to those we think are doing that.
§ Lord ALPORTMy Lords, would the noble Lord bear in mind—
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, we have four Questions today. We have taken 20 minutes over two, which is our usual allocation for the whole of Question Time. We have, as I shall shortly announce, a Private Notice Question coming from the Opposition, and I think the House is with me if I say that we really should finish this one.