§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether all hitherto discernible parties other than SWAPO participated in the recent election in South West Africa; whether SWAPO is not a purely Marxist organisation; and whence come the resources for their activities.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, a number of Namibian political Parties, including SWAPO, declined to take part in the recent election conducted by the South Africans. SWAPO's primary aim is to secure independence for Namibia from South Africa. It is not entirely clear what policies SWAPO would implement if it came to power. SWAPO receives support from a wide variety of sources, including Governments, Churches, and the United Nations and some of its agencies.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, I should like to ask the Minister whether, judging from the high proportion of participation by registered voters, and despite intimidation by SWAPO's agencies, it would appear that the influence of SWAPO internally from external terrorist sources must be very small. Therefore, would it not be wise for the Government now, instead of leaning their consideration to SWAPO, to recognise that SWAPO is a Communist organisation, 546 and is therefore likely to use any influence that it has to make sure that there is not a peaceful solution?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the British Government, like their friends and allies, and indeed the United Nations as a whole, very much hope that there will be an even higher level of participation in the elections to be held under United Nations auspices fairly early in the New Year. As to the influence of SWAPO, I think that we will be in a better position to judge that after the forthcoming elections, rather than after those recently held. With regard to SWAPO's intended policies, I think that it is a little premature to brand as Communistic its aims and intentions.
§ Lord CARRINGTONMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell the House what the next steps are to be now that the election is over?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, as the noble Lord knows, Mr. Botha has seen Dr. Waldheim recently (at the end of November), and it is agreed that he will report to Dr. Waldheim, and therefore: to the United Nations, after his consultation with the internal leaders in Namibia, with a view to South Africa co-operating in the implementing of the United Nations plan as a whole, which of course includes the holding of elections a little later, under United Nations auspices. I believe that matters are moving reasonably favourably in that direction.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, reverting to the earlier Question, I should like to ask the Minister whether it is not the case, whatever intimidation SWAPO urged, that chiefs rounded up villagers and employers rounded up their workers into lorries and took them to vote; and that therefore the 80 per cent. vote cannot be taken as expressing the view of the people in Namibia?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, we shall undoubtedly all take full note of what has happened in the recent elections, and we have our own interpretation of how the results were achieved. I believe that we should concentrate now on the readiness of the South African 547 Government to participate in the United Nations plan, which includes the kind of elections which my noble friend and anybody else will undoubtedly accept as valid.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, can the noble Lord say how many persons were held in detention under Section 6 of the Terrorism Act during the course of the recent elections, and whether all those persons will be free, so that they can take part in normal political activities during the run-up to the elections which we hope will take place next year?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSI should very much hope so, my Lords, though I cannot possibly be absolutely certain that this will be so. However, I shall take note of what the noble Lord has said. It certainly is essential that everybody should be in a position to take part freely in the elections arranged for next year.
§ Lord DRUMALBYNMy Lords, is the noble Lord satisfied that in the recent elections the ballot was secret?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSI was not there, my Lords. There was a very high participation. We have still to await the detailed results and the outcome, which is a little more complicated than in our own, perhaps over-simplified, system in this country. As I said, we should take note of the high level of participation in the elections, however attained, but we should also concentrate upon achieving an even higher level of participation, with an even more general acceptance for the elections to which the South Africans have agreed, for next year.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, can Her Majesty's Government in the interim take any active steps to assist in dampening down the inter-tribal enmities which unfortunately are still rife in that territory?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, we have done, and we are doing, everything we can to help in this matter. It is undoubtedly true, as my noble friend has reminded us, that this aspect of the situation in many parts of Southern Africa is very disturbing. We shall continue to do our best.
§ Lord BURTONMy Lords, did I hear the Minister correctly when he said that the Churches were supporting SWAPO, and, if so, which Churches, and in what way are they supporting SWAPO?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the way in which they are supporting SWAPO is, I am sure, in a purely Christian and humanitarian sense.
§ Several noble Lords: Oh!
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSWell, as a mere Presbyterian, I have a high regard for the Anglican Church, which is obviously shared on the other side of the House. I am quite sure that the motivation of the Church as a whole in assisting in these areas is a true one—a humanitarian purpose. As to the identity of the actual organisations, perhaps the noble Lord would care to put down a Question for Written Answer, and I will do my best to give him the details.
§ Lord HANKEYMy Lords, in view of the disastrous results in other countries —some indeed in Europe—where the Communists have got in through nominally free elections and have come to dominate the whole situation, and considering that SWAPO has the taint of Marxism on itself (not to put it any higher), may we be sure that the Government will regard the situation which results in the present elections with true objectivity? Will they not lean over backwards to favour a Party—SWAPO—and the other Parties perhaps, which have boycotted the elections deliberately?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, certainly we have not at any time indicated an exclusive partiality for any Party in Namibia. SWAPO is an important element in the political life of that country and, I am sure, will continue to be so, but it is not the only element. We have never said that it is the only political force shaping the future of Namibia. I repeat that, as to its ultimate intentions economically and politically, I think it is a little early to judge.
Lord HAWKEMy Lords, is it true that, when the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, stood for Parliament, he rounded up voters in lorries and other transport to take them to the polls?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I really do not know. All I know is that for one reason or another a very high percentage of the population took part in these elections; and, as a mere democrat, I am prepared to welcome a high level of participation, for whatever reason. I think, once more, we should address ourselves to the reasonably favourable situation which is forming, looking to the implementation of the UN plan, including free and fair elections as early as possible in the New Year and possibly including United Kingdom participation in a UN presence, if we are asked.
§ Several noble Lords: Next Question!
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I think that, as we have three more Questions and five debates to follow today, the House will agree with me that we should pass on.