AIRLINES AND PASSENGER OVERBOOKING (Hansard, 20 January 1976)

§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRY
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, the noble and learned Lords made it clear that they were not concerned with the policy of overbooking as such, but only with the application of the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 to a letter sent to a prospective customer about his booking. In the recent report on overbooking, completed before this decision, the Civil Aviation Authority concluded that there was no effective way of deterring the substantial number of what are termed "no shows", who are the root cause of overbooking. It would, therefore, be against the interests of airline users generally to prohibit overselling. Even if effective, it would simply cause all passengers to pay more to solve a problem affecting very few.
However, the Authority recognises the hardship overbooking can and does inflict on those few passengers and proposes to introduce a scheme for mandatory compensation for passengers of British airlines who are not carried although they have confirmed space on a particular flight. I understand that the Authority plans to do this by way of a licence condition and as a first step it will naturally consult the airlines. In this connection, I gather that British Airways and British Caledonian Airways already operate their own compensation arrangements on a voluntary basis. In view of my right honourable friend's function in hearing appeals from licensing decisions of the Authority, I would prefer not to comment in more detail. So far as foreign airlines are concerned, my advice is that powers do not exist at present to enforce compensation, but my right honourable friend will in due course be urging those who operate to and from this country voluntarily to adopt similar arrangements to any applicable to British airlines.

§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRY
My Lords, is it not becoming increasingly clear that if one is ever to have a satis- 346 factory Answer, it must always be brief? Is my noble friend aware that, although we have a variety of Ministers answering on this issue, we never get a better Answer? Reverting to the Question on the Order Paper, may I ask whether my noble friend is aware that what I have stated is quite correct; that is, that the Law Lords found that this application of the over-booking policy fell foul of the Trade Descriptions Act? Is it the intention of Her Majesty's Government to allow to continue a practice which has been ruled to be illegal, or do they intend to allow the practice to continue with some small alteration of the text so that the customer is no better off but the law is satisfied?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, I wish that I could answer with a short statement my noble friend's supplementary question. I thought that what I said was very clear; that is, that the decision is that the recommendations of both the Civil Aviation Authority and the Airline Users' Committee, of which my noble friend is a member, recognise the problems facing the airlines and maintain that the disadvantages which may arise through over-booking are cancelled by the need to avoid unnecessary losses to the airlines operating scheduled services. It is a matter of choice and this is the choice we have made.

§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRY
My Lords, my noble friend is doing his best and, before the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hailsham. proceeds, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware of the frustration of those of us who wish to see the users' point of view considered and whether he is aware that the reasons put forward by the airlines are accepted by the Civil Aviation Authority because it is airline-orientated, as it has to be in view of the work it has to do? Who is to consider the user when the Users' Committee is responsible to the Civil Aviation Authority?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, so far as I know, the Airline Users' Committee is responsible to the Secretary of State and not to the Civil Aviation Authority.

§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRY
That is not so.

§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONE
My Lords, is it not true that what the House of Lords in its judicial capacity decided was illegal was a misleading letter? I have two questions to ask about that: first, what assurance has the noble Lord that, whatever the merits or demerits of the overbooking policy, British Airways will not in future issue such misleading letters? Secondly, how can it be right that no powers exist against foreign airlines if they are guilty of sending misleading letters in this country? Are they not covered by the Trade Descriptions Act equally with British Airways?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, I understand that the letter in question was addressed not to British Airways but to the British Overseas Airways Corporation and that, although there is clearly a link, there is a legal difference. However, I believe that the point which the noble and learned Lord has made is valid. As he knows, a review of the Trade Descriptions Act is taking place and this is one of the questions that will be considered in the course of that review. Unfortunately, many international airlines are State airlines and I presume that we can operate in this country only by persuasion.

§ Lord MAYBRAY-KING
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that those of us who watch with admiration the efforts of the noble Baroness in her battle with the airlines to achieve fairness also watch with despair her failure to make any impact on Her Majesty's Government?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, with due apologies to my noble friend, it would be marvellous if one were always right, but that is, unfortunately, denied to most of us. My noble friend is perhaps in a stronger position than most of us because she is a member of the Airline Users' Committee and has a forum in which to express her views. If my guess is right, a tribute is paid to her in the Committee's report, which says: We are pleased to report that, due principally to the tenacity of one of our members, matters are a great deal further forward. I can only assume that that refers to my noble friend.

§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONE
My Lords, will the noble Lord not review with his colleagues the point which I put to him in my previous supplementary?—that is, if foreign airlines do exactly the same thing as was done in the case which came before the House of Lords and in that litigation, they will be guilty of an offence if they do it in this country. I ask the noble Lord to consider with the Government whether he can possibly be right in saying that persuasion, not prosecution, is the only remedy open to them.

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, the noble and learned Lord speaks with great weight and I shall convey his views to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State.

§ Baroness WOOTTON of ABINGER
My Lords, does the Minister not appreciate that when a person arrives at an airport having, as he thinks, booked a seat, what he wants is not a sum of money but to reach his destination? Money paid on a voluntary, or even a compulsory, basis may be no adequate compensation at all.

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, we live in an imperfect world and all we can do if the machine goes wrong is to pay monetary compensation. That British Airways and British Caledonian Airways are doing.

§ Baroness WOOTTON of ABINGER
My Lords, surely the machine need not go wrong if the airlines would adopt a policy which many travel agents adopt?—that is, that on making a booking the passenger pays a deposit which is forfeited if he does not show up. Would not this provide the means of paying for the expense which the airlines now say compels them to overbook?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, this is a very complex problem. Clearly, it is attractive to take the course proposed by my noble friend, but the flexibility that "no shows" and overbooking give the scheduled airlines outweigh, in the view of those qualified to judge, the very irritating frustrations experienced by 0.01 per cent. of travellers who experience what I believe is known in the trade as "bumping".

§ Lord DRUMALBYN
My Lords, will the noble Lord look again at the question of compensation? Is he not aware that the amount of damage or loss suffered by one person as a result of being put off a plane may differ very greatly from that suffered by another? Is he satisfied that a fixed sum of compensaton is the right way of dealing with the problem?

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM
My Lords, I shall make certain that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is informed of the views of this House.

§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRY
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he can commit the Government to investigating whether or not the claim that the airlines can do nothing about this practice is indeed correct before accepting it?

§ The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord Shepherd)
My Lords, my noble friend has extended an invitation to the Government. I know that this is a subject in which many noble Lords, both among those present this afternoon and among those present on earlier occasions, have an interest. I wonder whether my noble friend would consider putting down an Unstarred Question for an early date at which time we could discuss this matter in detail and with full explanations at the end of the debate. If so, I should like to suggest that we should move to the next Question.

§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRY
Yes, my Lords, with the greatest of pleasure. I am much obliged to my noble friend.