§ 2.52 p.m.
Lord BRUCE of DONINGTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many tons of beef were being stored on 29th April 1975 in Liverpool, London and Birmingham respectively at the instance or on behalf of the Irish intervention board in implementation of EEC requirements.
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, the information requested is not available to Her Majesty's Government. Some quantities of beef owned by the intervention agency of the Republic of Ireland are held in cold stores in the United Kingdom, but the arrangements for this are made by the Irish intervention agency with private commercial companies.
Lord BRUCE of DONINGTONMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that according to a report appearing in the Sunday Telegraph of last week there were hundreds of tons of meat in storage under intervention going rotten, and will he state when the meat in storage was last inspected by the Meat and Livestock Commission? Is he further aware that the amount of beef held in stock in this country at the moment is on latest reports between 50,000 and 70,000 tons?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, there have been reports that some beef in the custody of the Irish intervention agency has been spoiled, either by accident or by careless handling, but I may say that doubt has been cast on their reliability. Indeed, the particular trader has since stated in the Press that he was misreported. Of course I must point out, too, that we in the United Kingdom are supporting our beef producers primarily through a system of premium payments similar in some respects to deficiency payments. The Purpose of having intervention here is to underpin the market and prevent a collapse of prices such as we saw last autumn. Indeed, the only beef held in the United Kingdom for which the British intervention board in responsible is 43 tons, all of which is held in Northern Ireland.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, in view of the Minister's statement that the Government have no knowledge of this matter, and as this beef is being held as an implementation of an EEC requirement, should we not now know and question what that EEC requirement is?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, this beef is the property of the Irish intervention agency. They have made private commercial arrangements with individual companies in the United Kingdom to store some beef here, because there is insufficient cold storage space available in the Republic. I may say that the Irish Government and the EEC Commission have both shown concern in recent weeks at the continuing heavy use of intervention by Irish producers at the time of the year when market prices are at their highest. The EEC's Beef Management Committee, of which we are of course members, are to discuss new measures designed to ensure stricter control over the way in which intervention beef is handled and to discourage excessive use of intervention beef when market prices are firm. This is of course one of the advantages of being a member of the Community.
§ Lord BLYTONMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the basic philosophy of the EEC, in regard to the storage of such commodities as wine and meat, is the economics of the mad house? Is it right that people should pay a high price for meat, and that we should continue to store it in order to maintain a high price to poor people who can hardly afford to buy any?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, I should like to emphasise that this is beef belonging to the Republic of Ireland. So far as this country is concerned, there are only 43 tons in intervention store. Also, following what my noble friend has said, I think we should bear in mind that the 260,000 tons of beef in the whole Community—the so-called "beef mountain "—is not in fact a mountain at all; it is really a revolving store and it represents only about two and a half weeks' consumption for the Community.
§ Lord WIGGMy Lords, in the noble Lord's anxiety to escape from responsibility, has he taken into acount the fact that if there are thousands of tons of 100 Irish meat planted in cold storage by the Irish Government and it deteriorates, it then becomes the responsibility of somebody and there is just a possibility that, through the workings of the capitalist system, it might find its place on the market? What steps have the Government taken to ensure that if the Irish beef deteriorates that does not happen?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, the reports that the beef in Ireland—in Kildare—is deteriorating have been denied. They have been denied by the company concerned and also by the Irish Livestock and Meat Board. So far as the United Kingdom and our partners in the Community are concerned, we are very anxious and we continue to press for greater use of intervention beef for the benefit of consumers within the Community.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, is it not a fact that there are ample and stringent arrangements for the inspection of meat placed upon the market to prevent anything of the kind which the noble Lord, Lord Wigg, has rather irresponsibly suggested?
§ Lord STRABOLGIYes, of course, my Lords, the noble and learned Lord is perfectly right. So far as the Irish beef in this country is concerned, these cold stores are supervised by public health inspectors.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, can my noble friend say whether the Irish Republic is not a member of the EEC and therefore the EEC must be aware of what is happening? Also, can he say whether it is the intention to liberate this beef before or after the vote on the referendum is taken, and whether there is any political motivation in this? May I have an answer?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, I am glad to say that the Republic of Ireland is a member of the EEC, as indeed we are as well. As I said earlier, the Beef Management Committee are discussing measures for stricter control over intervention. Anyway, intervention is not something that we operate to any large extent in this country except as a safety net, and it is through our membership of the Community that my right honourable friend the Minister managed to persuade 101 the other members to adopt our system of premiums plus intervention as a safety net.
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether, in fact, all the meat which we hold in this country represents one-sixth of all the meat in intervention in the EEC? Is he further aware that that which is held is purely on a contractual basis, and therefore, has nothing to do with our own system of support?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, as I said, we hold in store in this country only 43 tons.
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, my noble friend said there is an agency operating alongside that of the Government of Ireland. Would the noble Lord inform the House what this agency is, and who set it up? Is it the EEC Commission? Who is responsible for it?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, it is the EEC Commission, but each country has its own intervention board.
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the beef saga being debated at this moment in this Chamber is becoming something of a red herring? In point of fact, storage of beef of this kind and by this method has been going on for years. In any case, beef does not rot in cold store unless there is a mechanical breakdown or gross carelessness.
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, having received that information, may I suggest that we pass on to the next Question?