HL Deb 19 June 1975 vol 361 cc998-9
Lord HOUGHTON of SOWERBY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the use of living animals as part of surgery on human beings is a matter solely for the clinical decision of doctors and consultants under the National Health Service at National Health Service hospitals.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, the matter is a decision for the consultant, provided that any relevant legal provision is complied with. The consultant in charge accepts clinical responsibility where a procedure intended to benefit an individual patient is used.

Lord HOUGHTON of SOWERBY

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that his Answer raises several important principles? The first is clinical responsibility; the second is ethical practice; and the third is public expenditure. Does my noble friend's Answer mean that there is no limit to the expenditure which may be incurred in the treatment of an individual patient? If it were thought necessary by the consultant to require four elephants, would they be provided under the National Health Service for this kind of experiment?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, if I may first endeavour to deal with the second part of my noble friend's supplementary question, it depends on the value that one puts on human life. I do not think I can take it any further than that. So far as the ethical aspects are concerned, this was an example of a new treatment not of a clinical research nature. Therefore, it would not come under the scrutiny of the ethical committees established throughout the National Health Service to examine the ethics of all proposed clinical research projects involving patients.

Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARY-LEBONE

My Lords, the noble Lord referred to relevant legal provisions. I am sure that the House would be interested to know what particular relevant legal provisions the noble Lord had in mind when he made that reference.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble and learned Lord. I can only call to mind two. The first is if there is a question of the patient's consent; and the second is if in certain cases, depending on age, there is a question of the parents' consent. I must confess that they are the only two provisions that come to my mind at this moment.