§ 3.22 p.m.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will indicate what criteria are used in determining whether to intervene in the internal affairs of foreign States.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, it is not the policy of Her Majesty's Government to intervene in the internal affairs of any foreign State.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, arising from that reply, may I ask the Minister whether he agrees that while the mission recently sent to South Africa was disclaimed by the Government as having any official character, unavoidably in South Africa it was regarded as being official? Is it now contemplated that that inquiry is likely to be repeated in any other countries where, by general consent, industrial earnings are well-known to be on the low side?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I assume that the noble Lord is referring to the recent inquiry into conditions in Southern Africa. This was not in the form of an intervention. Perhaps we might differentiate between "intervention" and "representation". I freely agree that in regard to specific cases we do make representations, particularly about the persecution of minorities and individuals. But that is not the same as intervening, and I do not think that the kind of procedure which the noble Lord has described could fairly be described as "intervention".
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, is it not inevitable that it would be regarded in the country concerned as being encouraged by the Government? What I am asking is whether it is contemplated that any encouragement will be given to having a similar inquiry in other countries.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I think I had better undertake to study carefully the report of the noble 485 Lord's words when they appear impeccably in Hansard tomorrow morning.
§ Viscount MASSEREENE and FERRARDMy Lords, is this not a question of double standards, and where the Minister's Party is faithful to the political Party in power in certain countries they do not institute inquiries into the conditions there, such as they might institute in South Africa, or perhaps in other countries with whose policies the Government do not agree? Is that not a question of double standards?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I do not think so. What the Select Committee did was to investigate very fairly the conduct and practice of British firms in Southern Africa. A report was produced which in some instances was critical, and in many other instances was favourable. I do not think we can regard that procedure as being an example of double standards, still less of undue intervention in another country.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that those who are guilty of double standards are those who ask questions like those to which we have listened this afternoon? They are always loud in their demands that we should condemn—and quite rightly—people coming from the Eastern bloc, like Mr. Shelepin, but have nothing to say about the victims of apartheid who suffer in Southern Africa.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, all this is part of the interesting difficulty of this Question. Perhaps the noble Lord, to whom I assume that question was addressed, will take his own way of answering the noble Lord, Lord Avebury.
§ Lord ORR-EWINGMy Lords, will the noble Lord bear in mind that circulars have been sent out to all firms associated with South African companies requesting details of conditions of pay and rewards of people employed in South Africa? If i there is no double standard, could he say in what other countries similar inquiries have been made about employment conditions associated with British firms such as behind the Iron Curtain or in any other countries where protection of rights exist?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the noble Lord may recall that 486 two or three weeks ago I asked whether we might consider a similar inquiry regarding the conditions in tea plantations in Sri Lanka. The reply was that we could consider this matter and that it would be for Parliament, through the Select Committee procedure, so to move. There is that possibility and there may be other possibilities in the future.
§ Baroness WOOTTON of ABINGERMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that we have in this country a responsibility for the behaviour of British firms anywhere in the world?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSYes, my Lords, I do agree. I believe there is a general consensus that while we should take care to encourage those who are acting to reach quite high standards, we should try to do our best to discourage others from falling below such standards and encourage them to emulate those who do better.