§ LORD GLADWYNMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have reason to believe that the circumstantial account of appalling governmental atrocities in Uganda, contained in the article by Mr. Christopher Munnion in the Sunday Telegraph of March 4, 1973, bears any relation to the facts; and, if so, whether they consider that Uganda under the Amin régime is a suitable Member of the Commonwealth or indeed of the United Nations.
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are not in a position to confirm the truth or otherwise of this account, but it is broadly in line with other published accounts and with the expressed views of the International Commission of Jurists. Such atrocities, if the reports are true, are outrageous by normal standards of civilised behaviour, and incompatible with the behaviour expected within the Commonwealth partnership, and with the ideals of the United Nations Charter.
§ LORD GLADWYNMy Lords, while thanking the noble Baroness for that reply, and while noting that, as I understand it, the charges made by Mr. Christopher Munnion are not denied, may I ask two supplementary questions? In the first place, do the Government not think that the moment has come to evacuate the remaining British subjects in Uganda—there are only 2,000 of them, I 592 think—and to compensate any who are deserving of compensation, thereby removing them from the blackmailing power of this mischievous and malignant tyrant? Secondly, will the Government consider putting photostatic copies of Mr. Munnion's report in the Library, so that noble Lords may themselves find out what the charges are?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, to the second supplementary question I would say that I will certainly consider it. On the first. I need hardly tell the House that the safety of the British community is of constant concern to the Government. The Ugandan authorities have of course been reminded of their responsibility for the protection of the British community on several recent occasions, and they have accepted full responsibility for the protection of the lives and property of all foreign nationals. We have about 2,500 British subjects in Uganda now, and in view of the responsibility accepted by the Ugandan Government we do not think we should take any speedy action in the way suggested by the noble Lord.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, before asking the noble Baroness a question, may I express gratitude to her for the emphasis she has put on the disapproval of what was reported in that article? Is she aware that to other countries—for instance, South America—accounts of such savage bestiality as are contained in the article referred to, which must have some degree of truth, must surely be puzzling when they concern a member of the British Commonwealth, for which we used to have such admiration and respect? Is it not time that some sound was made to indicate that the rest of the Commonwealth—at least, the Heads of Commonwealth—feel that such a country is no longer fit to be a proper member of the Commonwealth?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, suspension or expulsion from the Commonwealth could be done only by all the Commonwealth Governments acting in agreement. As to Her Majesty's Government taking the initiative, I would say to noble Lords that we have still several important issues to discuss with the Ugandan Government, and I think we should see how we get on first.
§ LORD MAYBRAY-KINGMy Lords, can the noble Baroness tell us what action Her Majesty's Government are taking about Uganda at the United Nations?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, whether or not a country should in fact be a member of the United Nations is, again, a question that the United Nations have to decide together. On the face of it, there is a case that General Amin's actions constitute a breach of Articles 55 and 56 of the Charter, in which United Nations' members pledge themselves to act to achieve respect for human rights for all. However, this decision would have to be taken by the U.N. as a whole.
§ LORD AVEBURYMy Lords, while I entirely agree with my noble friend in the criticisms that he has levelled at Uganda, is it not the case that General Amin's régime might be purely temporary? Would we not regret taking any precipitate action to expel Uganda from the Commonwealth or from the United Nations, when we hope that ultimately civilised behaviour can be restored in that country?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I am sure I speak for the whole House when I say that we all hope that civilised behaviour will return to Uganda, but it is not for us to take any unilateral action, either in the United Nations or in the Commonwealth. Nor, as I have said, do we think it wise.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, in again thanking the noble Baroness for the clearness of her reply, may I ask her if she could expand a little on it? My question was: Is it not time there was evidence of some strong feeling by the Heads of the Commonwealth so that there is a movement from the rest of the Commonwealth to express their opinion as to what seems desirable?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, we have a meeting of the Heads of Governments of the Commonwealth in August. That is quite a long time ahead, and I suggest we should leave matters where they are at the moment.
§ LORD SLATERMy Lords, is the noble Baroness not aware that time is a 594 great healer? An answer that she has given to this House on this particular Question, which is that caution ought to be taken because of the British subjects who are in that part of the world—and our hearts go out to them in such circumstances—is one which I think we should be well advised to take.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his intervention. We are very concerned about our British subjects, but we hope that the Uganda Government will live up to its responsibilities, which it has undertaken to do.