HL Deb 14 March 1972 vol 329 cc307-10

2.40 p.m.

LORD AVEBURY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many out-patient abortions have been performed at King's College Hospital; what plans exist for similar units at other hospitals administered under the National Health Service; and what guidance has been issued to Regional Hospital Boards on the scale of provision which should be made for these operations.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY (LORD ABERDARE)

My Lords, up to March 8, 1972, 424 abortions had been performed on outpatients at King's College Hospital. It is for the operating doctor to decide whether to use out-patient techniques. We know that a number of hospitals are undertaking abortions on an out-patient basis and assessing the results but it is too early to consider issuing general guidance to Regional Hospital Boards on a scale of provision for out-patient abortions. I would expect that Mrs. Justice Lane's Committee will consider the implications of out-patient techniques for the working of the Abortion Act, and any recommendations made by the Committee on such techniques will be carefully considered.

LORD AVEBURY

My Lords, how can the noble Lord say that it is too early to consider the implications of this technique, when, although the number of operations done at King's College Hospital is only 10 to 20 a week, 10,000 operations of this kind are being carried out in a year in New York and Washington? Is he aware that Dr. Malcolm Potts, Secretary of the International Planned Parenthood Federation, recently visited the United States and has come back to express the opinion that this technique is entirely safe? Is he further aware that, in view of the closure of the Lang-ham Street Clinic, imposed by the Secretary of State for Social Services—a decision with which I do not quarrel—there is going to be a greater demand on the National Health Service for operations of this kind, and that the new technique of out-patient abortions will enable a more substantial number of the women at risk to be treated?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, why I say that it is too early to issue general guidance is because this is an operative technique and it is up to the operating doctor to decide whether he thinks it is safe and whether he wants to use it. Hitherto, the medical profession in this country have not been fully assured of its safety and efficacy. If they were so assured, then of course it would be for us to provide facilities for it. So far as the closure of the Langham Street Clinic is concerned that, as the noble Lord obviously appreciates, was for the safety of the patients being treated there. There is still spare capacity in the private sector which I have no doubt will be able to cope with those patients who might otherwise have gone to the Langham Street Clinic.

LORD AVEBURY

My Lords, the noble Lord must be joking when he says that there is spare capacity in the private sector which is capable of dealing with the problem. Is he aware that, according to the Birmingham Pregnancy Advisory Service, 15 per cent. of abortions are taking place in the commercial sector, and that the charges made for this operation range from £140 to £150 up to as much as £250? How does he think that the poor women, who are clients of the Birmingham and London Pregnancy Advisory Services, who are refused operations under the National Health Service in spite of the fact that recommendations have been made by two doctors that they should have such operations, can afford fees of that kind? Will the noble Lord try to ensure that better facilities are available under the National Health Service, including out-patient abortions?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I do not wish to be drawn beyond the original Question. We are now getting into a debate about the private sector and the National Health Service. The noble Lord's Question was specifically directed to the facilities of the National Health Service. We have urged Regional Hospital Boards to provide all the facilities they can within the resources that are open to them. As I have said, so far as this form of abortion is concerned there is still no agreement among the profession although they are naturally increasingly interested in it as a technique.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, with regard to what the noble Lord has just said, may I ask him whether, if the medical profession had not been satisfied with the safety and efficacy of abortion, the Bill would ever have reached the Statute Book?

LORD ABERDARE

I am afraid that the noble Baroness is misquoting me. I was talking about the type of abortion to which the noble Lord's Question referred, which is normally known as vacuum aspiration. That is the only form of abortion to which the Question referred and to which I am replying.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

Then, my Lords, will the noble Lord tell me what is his authority, when he states that the medical profession is not satisfied with this method?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, not all the medical world are satisfied with it, because they are not all using it. It is being used only in certain limited hospitals at the moment. The Royal College of Gynaecologists, for example, has not yet made up its mind as to whether this is a recommended form of abortion.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, is it not a fact that it is not being used by everybody because it is a new method?

BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER

My Lords, will the Minister agree that it would be better to devote our resources to preventing unwanted pregnancies, rather than to terminating them after they have occurred?

LORD ABERDARE

Yes, my Lords. I should most certainly agree and I am very grateful to the noble Baroness.

LORD AVEBURY

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that my Question did not in any way suggest that attention should not be given by the Government to the prevention of unwanted pregnancies, and that my criticism of the Government is that they do nothing about that and nothing about abortions either?