§ 2.43 p.m.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps are being taken in respect of countries which are still harbouring hijackers of aircraft, and/or conspirators for the purpose of carrying out hijacking operations, and/or permitting the training of murderous gangsters for such purposes on their territories.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, as my noble friend the Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs told the noble Lord on June 16, we were supporting a proposal in the Council of International Civil Aviation Organisation that a convention providing for international action on this subject should be drafted. I am glad to be able to inform the House that the Council has accepted this proposal, and that work on 1147 this will start in the International Civil Aviation Organisation in the near future.
LORD JANNERMy Lords, while thanking the noble Earl for that reply, may I ask him whether he is aware of the recommendation which was passed by the Council of Europe a few days ago, to the effect that no flights should be accepted from—and may I quote the words:
… nations which officially or unofficially grant political asylum to hijackers or enable them to execute their activities."?Will the noble Earl also reassure the House in regard to the shocking rumour (if it is a rumour) that the Government propose to allow the setting up of an office of the Palestine Liberation Organisation which has for a very considerable time been encouraging crimes of this kind, leading to hijacking in various places and to the destruction of property and life in this country? Will he assure the House that there is no such intention on the part of Her Majesty's Government? If there were this intention they should know that people throughout the world would be shocked.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, with regard to the second part of the noble Lord's supplementary, I can state that it is not true that Her Majesty's Government have granted permission for the P.L.O. to open an office. Under British law, any organisation is free to set up an office provided that its subsequent activities do not conflict with the law. Accordingly, the P.L.O. do not need permission to set up an office and have not been given it. Her Majesty's Government therefore have not decided to allow the P.L.O. to set up an office. While I sympathise greatly with the Question the noble Lord, Lord Janner, has put, it is the belief of Her Majesty's Government that it is only by concerted international action that these problems can be solved and that unilateral action on behalf of one State or another is not the best way to solve them.
LORD JANNERMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl to reconsider the whole matter? Did not the recommendation of the Council of Europe include, with their full concern and full approval, an injunction against the opening of these offices? And is it not a fact that accord- 1148 ing to the Charter of the United Nations any help given to people who are out to destroy one of the nations included in the United Nations is contrary to international law? Was not that agreed to, and why on earth is it not made clear to these murderous people who are encouraging murder all over the place that they cannot carry on in this way and that we will not be a party to such conduct?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, without-going into too much detail, which obviously that question of the noble Lord would require, I would only tell him that the P.L.O. is not the same as the P.F.L.P. It is a political organisation and not a terrorist organisation, and as such there is no question of its requiring permission to open an office here.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, while agreeing with what the noble Earl said in his first Answer, that these matters are best dealt with by international action, I would ask him whether he would not agree that the decisions of international organisations are a result of national effort on the part of each nation? And can he say what additional effort is being made by Her Majesty's Government to secure international agreement and to bring in those nations who so far have refused to sign the Convention?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, is referring to The Hague and Montreal Conventions, they are of course open for signature by all countries, and it is the desire of Her Majesty's Government that as many countries as possible sign those Conventions. As to his question about what we are doing, we have in fact been taking very considerable action in ICAO to have a conference to establish a convention on the lines the noble Lord, Lord Janner, indicated.
§ LORD ROBBINSMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl this hypothetical question? Supposing there existed an international organisation whose object was to spread cholera thoughout the human race, would Her Majesty's Government wait on international action before preventing that organisation from setting up an office in London?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I think the noble Lord said that that was a 1149 hypothetical question; and as such it strays rather far from the Question on the Order Paper.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, would the Government bear in mind that if Yassir Arafat is allowed to set up shop in Britain it will be widely interpreted as an action at which the Government have connived? Would they not look at this matter again in the light of the terrorism that is going on?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I will see that my right honourable friend takes into account what the noble Lord, Lord Byers, has said.
LORD JANNERMy Lords, in view of the reply given regarding the P.L.O., are the Government prepared to inquire into the number of occasions on which the P.L.O. have claimed that they were responsible for, and activated, acts of terror and murder, certainly with regard to interference with flights? Will he further produce some statement to the House to enable us to decide whether or not in those circumstances they ought to be allowed asylum in this country?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I am certainly prepared to look into the point the noble Lord, Lord fanner, has made.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, does the Minister recall that on May 18 the noble Baronetss, Lady Tweedsmuir of Belhelvie, in reply to a Question from myself, said that the question of penalties for hijacking had not been discussed in the international field? In view of the emphasis given by the noble Lord, Lord Janner, to the urgency of this question, can the Minister not perhaps give some further assurance as to the likelihood of our island through diplomatic channels or, as has been suggested, through the United Nations bringing some further pressure to emphasise the urgency of this matter? Would he also give consideration to the suggestion of the noble Lord that for the benefit of all of us a statement may be made setting out the present position? Might I also ask him to add to that any elucidation he can on the allegations that are being made that science has devised a means whereby the scrutiny on which the examination into hijacking is largely based can now be neutralised?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I think this is clearly a matter which concerns everyone, not least the Government, and I would only say to my noble friend Lord Barnby that it is the hope that as many countries as possible will sign these conventions, because it is only when a country signs a convention that it is bound by it. If a country has refused to sign a convention it is very difficult to bring to bear the sanctions which the joining of a convention and the subsequent breaking of it would involve.