HL Deb 12 October 1971 vol 324 cc310-2

2.45 p.m.

EARL AMHERST

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that, because air charter operators are not usually required to file in advance flight plans with the air control authorities at the points of their departure in the same way that the operators of the regular scheduled air services are required to do, air space in Europe, particularly over France and Spain, becomes so highly congested at the times of the year when the Northern European holiday makers are seeking the sun at the resorts on the Mediterranean that the regular air services are almost continuously and heavily delayed.]

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, all operators of flights using the air traffic control service are required to file flight plans not less than 30 minutes before the intended flight, whether it is a scheduled service or a charter operation. The only difference is that operators of regular flights, whether scheduled or charter, are able to file flight plans en bloc not less than fourteen days in advance under the U. K. Stored Flight Plan System if they so desire. The serious delays which have occurred this summer are mainly attributable to restrictions imposed by Continental air traffic control centres. We are exploring with the French and other administrations concerned means of reducing delays.

EARL. AMHERST

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his Answer, may I ask him whether the Government are aware that under the ICAO Chicago Convention there are regulations which require the scheduled operators to tabulate their planned flights very far in advance and to notify not only the country of origin but the terminating country and the intervening countries over which these planes are to fly, but that these regulations do not cover charter operators, who are not required to do this?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, this may well be so; but it is not really the answer to the noble Earl's question, because the order of flight clearance for take-off of a flight is in general determined by the order in which pilots seek actual clearance for their particular flight from air traffic control, and air traffic control operates on a first come, first served basis.

EARL AMHERST

My Lords, I must apologise if I have not made myself clear to the noble Lord. Would he not agree that it would be a good thing to seek to bring the charter operators under the ICAO regulations now so that they would have to tabulate their flights well in advance—and I do not mean 30 minutes or fourteen days; some of these details are required months ahead—in order that the various controlling authorities have a chance to co-ordinate and regularise the air flow of traffic over Europe, at least, and so obviate these seasonal surges of congestion which are causing all these delays?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, with respect to the noble Earl, who knows a lot about these things, I do not think that what he has mentioned is the determining factor. The question is simply whether an aircraft is ready to take off. When it is ready to take off it signifies its readiness to air traffic control, but air traffic control may be unable to allow the aircraft to take off because of the flow control restrictions in other countries which may have been imposed—and they can be imposed at half an hour's notice.

EARL AMHERST

Yes, my Lords. I think that perhaps I am at odds with the noble Lord on this question, but may I ask him this? What I am asking is whether the Government agree that it would be useful for these charter people to be compelled to file their flight plans not 30 minutes or so before but weeks in advance, so that the controllers in these countries can produce a coordinated plan. which can be altered at the last moment. But to file a flight plan 30 minutes before a flight is really not good enough.

LORD DRUMALBYN

In theory, my Lords, I quite agree that this looks like a good solution, but I am told that in practice it would not affect the outcome because it is a fact that planes on scheduled flights are often not ready to take off when they are supposed to and that other operators may come in and be ready to take off; so the first come, first served rule has been found in practice to be the only practicable one.

EARL AMHERST

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether, in view of what he has said, Her Majesty's Government will now re-examine the position? If they do I think he will find that a proper co-ordinated plan will hell, a great deal.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, as I dare say the noble Earl is aware, Her Majesty's Government examined this question some years ago; but in view of what the noble Earl has said we shall certainly keep the matter under very close review. In fact, at the ICAO European Mediterranean regional meeting which is to be held in November we shall be urging the orginsation of a European flow control system.