§ 3.20 p.m.
§ LORD BEAUMONT OF WHITLEYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is intended that there shall be B. B. C. local radio stations and commercial radio stations operating in exactly the same areas.]
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, there is no requirement that every place served by a B. B. C. local radio station must be served also by a commercial station. However, the White Paper, An Alternative Service of Radio Broadcasting, envisages up to 60 commercial stations in the United Kingdom as compared with the B. B. C. 's 20 in England; and the expectation is therefore that many of the places served by the 20 will in fact also be served by commercial stations.
§ LORD BEAUMONT OF WHITLEYMy Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him whether it does not seem to be a waste of total resources to duplicate local radio? Also, if the local commercial radio stations are going to be truly local, and not just local "pop" stations, will even big cities be able to support two local stations, especially with local news and comment?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, to answer the noble Lord's second question first, yes, it is envisaged that some big cities will be able to support two local stations. It is envisaged that in some cases a place which is covered by one B. B. C. local radio station will be covered by two commercial local radio stations. The noble Lord asked whether it was going to be a waste of resources. Of course, there is the advantage of competition in those areas where there are two stations. Furthermore, as the stations are going to be commercial stations it will be somewhat natural that the densely populated areas will be more easy to provide with such stations.
§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that a good many years ago in the streets of 1151 San Francisco there were two competing companies running two complete sets of tramway lines in each direction? Does he not think that this type of competition partakes of the same qualities as that in San Francisco?
§ LORD DENHAMNo, my Lords; I was not aware of that fact and I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for the information. But neither do I know, unfortunately, how efficient those tramways were. I assure the noble Baroness that it is the view of Her Majesty's Government that an element of competition in local radio will be a good thing for the consumer.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, the consumer may be taken for a ride.
§ LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDALMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the setting up of these commercial radio stations might well make a contribution, even if only a small contribution, to the unemployment problem—is not that one of the objects of the Government?— as well as ensuring competition to ensure fuller employment for those who perhaps otherwise would be unemployed?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, I would not go as far as my noble friend, but there is the point that those who work in broadcasting will have an alternative form of employment, which will be very much fairer for the employee.
§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOEMy Lords, since the noble Lord has raised the question of competition, may I press him to say whether he will allow the B. B. C. to go beyond their 20 agreed stations, up to the 60 which are allowed for commercial radio? Furthermore, could he give the go-ahead for the B. B. C. to make use of the medium wave, which they were promised and which they are quite ready to do as soon as they are allowed to do so?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, in answer to the first question of the noble Baroness, I am afraid that I cannot give her the assurance she asked for.
§ LORD DENHAMBecause, my Lords, it is not the policy of Her Majesty's Government. In answer to her second question, the B. B. C. local radio will have medium-wave back-up at the same time as the first phase of the I. B. A. stations.
§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOEMy Lords, is that really reasonable from the point of view of consumers, since the B. B. C. are ready to do that at any moment now?
§ LORD DENHAMYes, my Lords; but it is a question of planning the medium wavelength allocation.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, will the Government give us an assurance that in drawing up these plans for commercial radio they will ensure that the local newspapers, which fulfil a very valuable role in our communities, are not endangered?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, this was one of the points that came up, and a great many of your Lordships were very concerned about this, when we debated the White Paper. I think the noble Lord will remember the safeguards that were quoted in the White Paper and also mentioned in that debate.