§ 3.5 p.m.
LORD JANNERMy Lords, I hope that the House will forgive me if at this moment I raise a point which I consider to be of extreme importance. I informed the noble Earl the Leader of the House that I desired to put a Question of which I had given Private Notice. I have spoken to him and he courteously has said that he himself would not allow this Question, but I hope that he will reconsider the position and that the House will support him and me (perhaps he will put the Question himself later on —I do not know—and allow this Question which, in my view, concerns one of the most urgent matters of the day. I beg leave, therefore, to ask this Question:
"To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make representations to the Government of the United States of America in view of the alleged adverse reports which they have received from some of their agencies"—
and I say in parenthesis that five out of seven of their agencies have turned this down—
"in relation to the nuclear test proposed to take place on November 6 on Amchitka Island in the Aleutians with a view to their postponing or abandoning this project."
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (EARL JELLICOE)My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Janner, if I may say so, has placed me in a position of some difficulty. I fully recognise the importance of the issues which the Question would raise, 128 and the last thing I should wish to do is to deny any noble Lord any right to which he is entitled. It is true that I happened to be at a meeting so I do not quite know when the noble Lord gave Notice, but I think he gave it at a certain time before the statutory 12 o'clock—I think it was 11.30 a.m. or so, from what I understand. I heard of this only at 1 o'clock as I happened to be at another meeting.
I would remind your Lordships that the Companion to the Standing Orders says this:
A Lord who wishes to give Her Majesty's Government private notice of his intention to ask a Question on a matter of urgency should submit his Question in writing to the Leader of the House by Twelve noon on the day on which he proposes to ask the Question.The noble Lord was inhibited from submitting it to me personally because I happened to be at a Cabinet meeting.The decision as to whether the Question is of sufficient urgency to justify an immediate reply rests in the first place with the Leader of the House and ultimately with the general sense of the House".In advising the noble Lord that the Question was not of sufficient urgency, I fully recognised the importance of this question, but I also had in mind the fact that this matter was raised by his noble friend Lord Chalfont at considerable length in yesterday's debate in your Lordships' House, and also that my noble friend Lord Lothian gave a considered reply, which will be found in cols. 117 and 118 of Hansard for yesterday. I was also advised that my noble friend would not be able to give any further reply in substance to the noble Lord's Question. In view of this, while not in any way wishing to minimise the importance of this matter, I felt that it was right to advise the noble Lord not to press this particular Question.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, I am bound to urge the House, with whom the ultimate decision rests, to support the views expressed by the noble Earl the Leader of the House. It is a most invidious task for the Leader of the House to decide whether or not to allow a Private Notice Question. He has no formal authority, but the House has endowed him in the first instance with the decision whether or not such a Question should be allowed. I myself do not recall an 129 occasion, although I believe there have been one or two, where a decision of the Leader—and I know how difficult these decisions are—has been disputed. As the noble Earl sympathetically said, and as I know, my noble friend feels very strongly that this is a matter of the greatest importance. None the less, it was raised yesterday; indeed, I believe that my noble friend intervened on it briefly. Although Standing Orders do not rule this out, the whole of the House runs not on Standing Orders but on its practice, and if we departed from our usual practice—there might be an occasion where it would be right for the House in fact to go contrary to the Leader's judgment—we should be completely lost. I hope that we can leave the matter there. It is not really open to debate. I suppose it could be, but it is for the House to express its view. I hope that the view of the House will be that, with the greatest sympathy with its importance, we should leave the matter there.
LORD JANNERMy Lords, in view of the statements made, I have no desire to press upon the House any procedure which is unusual. The explosion is likely to take place on Saturday and I have, as a matter of fact, a friend who is here from those islands—
LORD JANNERHe is in terrible fear, as are all the other citizens there. I hope that in the meanwhile something will be done by the Government in the matter. In the circumstances, I do not propose to press the Question.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I may be out of Order, but I should like just to express my appreciation to the noble Lord, Lord Janner. I would also emphasise that in these matters I feel myself the custodian of the rights of all the House, wherever Members may sit. I hope the noble Lord will appreciate the fact that in coming to my decision, right or wrong, I had his rights in mind as well as, as I hope is always the case, the rights of every Member of your Lordships' House.
§ Loan SHACKLETONMy Lords, I would only say that I think we have to be very careful. We descend into complete chaos if noble Lords do not take the advice of the Leader of the House, even if we discuss at any length the urgency or 130 otherwise of a certain matter. From time to time we all feel that matters are desperately urgent, and I agree that this is an urgent matter, but I hope that what has just now happened will not become a precedent.