§ LORD BROWNMy Lords, I must apologise to the House for the fact that when this Question appeared. on an earlier Order Paper this week I was unable to be present, owing to circumstances that were quite beyond my own control. I beg leave now to ask the Question which stands on to-day's Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follow:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the closing down of the British National Export Council and the recent postponement of sixty-one export missions are part of a policy of withdrawing from British industry Government-financed services to support export activities.]
§ THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD DRUMALBYN)My Lords, I am happy to answer the Question now: No, my Lords. The Government are not pursuing a policy of withdrawing Government-financed services to support export activities. The purpose of the new British Export Board, the establishment of which was announced by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry last Tuesday, is to unify the services and thereby to enable them to be provided at lower cost and to make the total effort more effective. At the same time my right honourable friend paid tribute to the work of the members and staff of the B.N.E.C., and said " they have served the country well in this vital work and I am grateful to them for all they have done ".
§ LORD BURNTWOODMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord what period will have elapsed between the effective closing down of the Council and the notification to the chairman of this decision? May I further ask him what steps have been taken to look after the interests of the staff concerned?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, steps are being taken to look after the interests of those concerned, and appropriate terms of redundancy will have to be worked out.
§ LORD BROWNMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for the Answer he gave to my Question, but are Her Majesty's Government not aware that the closing down of B.N.E.C., coupled with the cutting of financial support, coupled with the raising of interest rate on export credits, and the impending changes to the regional export boards, all point to withdrawal by Her Majesty's Government of support for exporters?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNNo, my Lords, I would not agree with that. The noble Lord himself was very active in initiating various forms of export support—the Export Marketing Research Service, the Export Marketing Advisory Service, the Group Export Representation Unit. All these are being brought together in a much more efficient organisation, and this is a natural step forward from the initiatives which the noble Lord originally took.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether there have been any complaints about the efficiency of those who have been responsible for dealing with export matters? Can he also say why, at a time when according to expert opinion there seems to be a danger of some recession in our export trade, the Government should have decided to ignore the opinions of those who have hitherto been responsible for dealing with the matter? What consultation has taken place with those who have been operating?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, if I may deal with the last question first, a good deal of consultation has taken place. The Department conducted a review, as they announced in the White Paper on The Reorganisation of Central Government they would do, and they have consulted the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the Civil Service Department in the Treasury, and, among outside organisations, the C.B.I., the Association of British Chambers of Commerce and the B.N.E.C.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords could the noble Lord answer the question?—perhaps I did not put it in a specific and direct form. Those who have been responsible in the various missions, the chairmen of the missions, have been doing excellent work on behalf of our export trade. Were they consulted, in addition to the other 524 organisations mentioned by the noble Lord?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNYes, my Lords. I cannot say that everyone was consulted individually, but in their corporate capacity they were consulted. I should make it plain that the change is simply to bring this organisation in the form of the British Export Board into being. It will have a board of businessmen presided over by the Minister for Trade as President and with a businessman as a Chairman.
§ LORD REDMAYNEMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that the way this matter has been presented has caused a good deal of offence to a great number of people in industry and commerce who have given a lot of voluntary service to B.N.E.C.? If he wants to ensure that that voluntary support is to continue, the sooner the Government announces their plans in detail the better it will be.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I am sorry to hear my noble friend say that this has given offence. This matter was announced; there was a Press release on the subject, and it was published with the full knowledge of the B.N.E.C.
§ Loan SHEPHERDMy Lords, I thought my noble friend Lord Burntwood asked two questions. The first was what notice was the Chairman of B.N.E.C. given prior to this announcement.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNI apologise my Lords, I did not quite get that question. I am not in a position to answer that.
§ LORD BROWNMy Lords, did the Government consult the area chairmen of the B.N.E.C.? It is well known that they are the real operating team of B.N.E.C. Were they consulted about these changes?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I could not say that each of them was consulted. They were consulted in a corporate capacity. It was for B.N.E.C. primarily to consult its own area chairmen.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, is the noble Lord unable, or does he think it undesirable, to give the period of notice that I asked for? Is it the fact that the 525 noble Lord cannot answer it, or he does not wish to answer it?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, that was not a question that occurred to me would be asked, and I just do not know the answer.
§ LORD DOUGLASS OF CLEVELANDMy Lords, did I understand the noble Lord to say that the new body would consist only of businessmen? B.N.E.C. had on it trade unionists, who took the information back to the T.U.C. and to the industries interested in this. The, trade unionists then realised what was at stake in the export policy being conducted. Is it the intention to cut the trade unionists out of the new body?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, it is intended that it should be a small, high-powered board. I am advised that it is a board of businessmen, but I will take note of what the noble Lord has said and will pass it on to my right honourable friend.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the answers he has given—and I know he has been very occupied—are causing a great deal of alarm on both sides of the House? There is great concern. Will he consider making a much fuller reply in which he deals with these points, possibly by a Statement, otherwise we shall almost certainly have to debate this.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNYes, my Lords, I will willingly consider that, with the leave of the House.
§ LORD AUCKLANDMy Lords, could my noble friend say what time lag there will be between the winding up of the B.N.E.C. and the starting of operations by the new Board?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, none at all. It is anticipated that the new Board will take over on January 1 next year from the B.N.E.C.
§ LORD DOUGLASS OF CLEVELANDMy Lords, I should like to ask for a further interpretation of the "high-powered Board". Is the suggestion that the B.N.E.C. was not a high-powered Board? It had on it some of the top industrialists in this country and some of the top marketing people, and did a large amount of business. I have heard 526 no complaints about the amount of business that it did. Is the interpretation of a " high-powered board " one which excludes the trade unionists in this country?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNNo, my Lords. My remarks were not intended to carry that implication. As the noble Lord knows, I was fairly closely associated with this myself and I should like to join very much in the tribute which has been paid to B.N.E.C. by my right honourable friend.