HL Deb 21 January 1971 vol 314 cc583-5
BARONESS DARCY (DE KNAYTH)

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will encourage the Post Office, and authorities in charge of premises to which the public are admitted, to provide public telephones accessible to the disabled.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY (LORD ABERDARE)

My Lords, I am informed that the Post Office seeks to meet the needs of the disabled, so far as is practicable, in the provision of public telephones. The provision of telephones on premises open to the public is usually a matter for those providing the building, and local authorities have been asked to draw developers' attention to Section 4 of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act.

BARONESS DARCY (DE KNAYTH)

My Lords, I should like to thank the Minister for that reply and to ask him two supplementary questions arising out of it. First, would the Government encourage authorities providing telephones accessible to the disabled to signpost them as being suitable? Secondly, does the Minister think that the relevant sections in the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970, apply both to existing and to future premises?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for drawing my attention to the point about signposting. I will let the Post Office have her suggestion, but I think there may be difficulties in adopting it. One difficulty that occurs to me is that there are so many different forms of disablement that it might be misleading to signpost these telephones. The answer to the second supplementary question is, No. The Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act refers only to future buildings, not to existing buildings. But in the circular which we sent out after the Act was passed we drew the attention of local authorities to existing buildings and to the need to encourage the provision of facilities where possible.

BARONESS MASHAM OF ILTON

My Lords, is the Minister aware that if the folding doors are removed, as has been done with the kiosks at King's Cross Station, a wheelchair will have easy access?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I was not aware of that. I will certainly take note of it.

LORD PLATT

My Lords, to supplement what the noble Baroness has said, may I say that some of us are not entirely pleased with the words "so far as is practicable", which I believe are used with regard to the Post Office. I am not sure whether Her Majesty's Government agree that this is really all that is practicable. There are hooded telephones which, if they are fitted at the right height are quite simple to operate; and such simple measures as removing a door here and there are often all that is required.

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, the words "so far as is practicable" refer to existing telephone kiosks. It would be a very large undertaking to adapt all of them. But I realise that where there are hooded telephones, which can only be put into buildings, this is a suitable way of making provision for the disabled.

LORD BURNTWOOD

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that although Government Departments, including the Department of Health, from time to time issue circulars advocating the provision of adequate facilities for disabled persons, the public at large need a great deal more education, and there should be criticism of the lack of initiative on the part of local authorities and local bodies? Is the noble Lord aware, for example, that it is quite possible for a publican to refuse entry to a public house because a man may be a nuisance to the other customers? The public really ought to be more educated in this matter.

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I think that is a question which it is beyond my scope to answer.

VISCOUNT INGLEBY

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the doors on outdoor telephone boxes are often so heavy and so strongly sprung that they are difficult for senior citizens or disabled people to open? Would he encourage research into a lighter type of door such as I understand exists in Holland?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I will certainly bring that point to the attention of the Post Office. I know that they have looked at it and that they find real limits to what is practicable in order to make a kiosk which can withstand both the weather and the attacks of vandals.

LORD SLATER

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the Post Office, as was the previous Ministry, are inter-tested in the Question that has been tabled to-day for Answer, but that, while one has every sympathy with the suggestion made by the noble Baroness, followed up in the supplementary question of the noble Viscount in regard to entrances to kiosks, such severe damage has been occasioned to public kiosks in this country that the cost involved has been almost intolerable for the Post Office to bear?

LORD ABERDARE

Yes, my Lords.

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