HL Deb 27 February 1969 vol 299 cc1221-30

4.18 p.m.

Report received.

Clause 6 [Other Amendments as to proxy and postal voting]:

LORD BROOKE OF CUMNOR moved Amendment No. 1:

Page 5, line 23, at end insert— ("() In section 23(7) of the Representation of the People Act 1949, as amended by paragraph 7(2) of the Seventh Schedule to the Local Government Act 1958, the words 'rural district' shall be omitted.")

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 1. Its drafting, I fear, inevitably fails to make crystal clear its real purpose, so I shall endeavour to explain that. The Representation of the People Act 1949 gave to invalids and certain other categories of people the right to vote by post at Parliamentary elections, and also at all kinds of local government elections except those for rural district councils and parish coup, ells. That means that people who are entitled under the law to vote by post can do so if they live in an urban district or a borough or a county borough; but if they happen to live in a rural district they cannot vote by post at rural district council elections. That has been the law since 1949. My Amendment suggests quite simply that the time has come to alter it.

Ten years after the 1949 Act was passed, the Local Government Act 1958 created a new form of local authority, called a rural borough, which has a mayor but otherwise only the power of a parish council. That Act excluded rural borough councils also from postal voting. When I first tabled my Amendment I got it wrong. I forgot the 1958 Act, which was silly of me, for I was responsible for putting it on the Statute Book. When I remembered, I revised the wording of my Amendment and I hope that it is right now. My intention is, if your Lordships will accept this Amendment, to legalise postal voting at elections for rural district councils but not at those foe parish councils or for rural borough councils which, as I have said, are mere like parish councils. I appreciate that there may not be the equipment to organise a postal voting system successfully for every parish council throughout the land, but I am sure that all the rural district councils could do it by now.

The precise reason for the exclusion of rural district councils in 1949 is somewhat obscure, if one reads the debates, but it seems as if the Labour Government of that time were doubtful whether the staff of rural district councils could manage the machinery of postal voting. At that time postal voting, even at ordinary Parliamentary elections was a new thing; it was quite untried. But now we have had twenty years' experience of it, and everyone concerned with every sort of election, down to urban district council elections, knows how the postal vote should be worked and administered. I am quite sure that the clerks of rural district councils could deal with it equally well, and therefore I am urging that the discrimination between urban district councils and rural district councils should now end.

My Lords, there is an additional reason. Rural districts mostly extend over much larger areas than urban districts, and distances to a polling station can be correspondingly much greater. So it may be that it is that more difficult for elderly people, if they are not too fit, to get to the polling station. Why should they be disfranchised just because they live in a rural district? I gave notice on Second Reading that I should like to see the Bill amended in this important respect. In winding up that debate the noble Lord, Lord Stonham, mentioned various objections to making this change. Honestly, I do not believe that these objections are valid, and I greatly hope that the Government will have second thoughts and will now grant this act of justice to people in rural districts: people who for one lawful reason or another cannot get to the polling station to cast their votes for whichever candidate they want to represent them on the council. I am sure it is of common interest to all your Lordships that the poll at local government elections should be as high as possible. I am calling attention here to certain classes of people for whom at present it is made almost impossible to cast their votes. I think there is an extremely strong case for justice for those people. I beg to move.

THE EARL OF GAINSBOROUGH

My Lords, I should like greatly to support the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, in his Amendment. I know that there are difficulties, rather serious difficulties, and that this argument has gone on for a good many years. But there are many people who think that justice should be done by giving the postal vote to those living in rural districts. I know that there are a number of technical difficulties, which I have no doubt the noble Lord, Lord Stonham, will tell us about in a few minutes' time, but I hope that this matter be given further thought, even if it cannot be dealt with at this particular moment. There is no doubt that conditions have changed in country areas and that the old idea that postal voting was not necessary, because people had every opportunity of voting without postal voting, does not apply to-day—as the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, has pointed out. I hope that the Government will be able to give this favourable consideration and that the noble Lord, Lord Stonham, may consider wearing his hat as Vice-President of the R.D.C.A. for a few minutes, even though he may have to take it off again very shortly afterwards.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, in moving his Amendment the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, said that the drafting failed to make the purpose of his Amendment clear. That may be so, because the Amendment refers to sections of the 1949 Act; but I would assure him at once that, purely as a matter of drafting, it is immaculate. There will be no problems arising therefrom. As the noble Lord said, its object is to provide for postal voting at rural district council elections, which is excluded as the Act stands at present. The noble Lord, Lord Brooke, proposes to achieve his object by removing the elections of rural district councillors from the exceptions named in Section 23(7) of the 1949 Act. But by virtue of Section 23(3) the Amendment would also have the effect of making it possible for qualified civilians to vote by proxy at those elections, quite apart from having a postal vote.

There was no postal voting at any local government elections in this country before 1948. In 1946 the Oliver Committee on Electoral Registration recommended: That so far as practicable provision should be made for postal voting at local government elections by all the classes of civilians who are entitled to vote at parliamentary elections, with the exception of persons who no longer reside at the address for which they are registered. As the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, mentioned, in 1948 the then Government, in deciding to provide votes for electors at local authority elections, decided against providing them at elections for rural district councillors. The noble Lord said that their reasons for so deciding were not very clear: but in fact the decision was taken on practical grounds. It was then considered desirable, on account both of likely administrative difficulties in some areas and of expenses to local authorities, to keep the procedure at these elections as simple as possible. It was thought that postal voting at those elections would add an administrative complication out of all proportion to the needs of the case and a heavy burden on the staffs of authorities which were in any case, in the main, small authorities with small staffs.

But the Rural District Councils Association, of whom the noble Earl is President, and on whose shoulders most of the work would fall, are now wholly in favour of the introduction of postal voting at rural district council elections. They told us in the Home Office, in a recent letter: Since rural and parish elections are conducted together it would seem sensible to extend postal voting to both of them. But they added: On the other hand this Association's principal concern is of course with rural district council elections and if it were for any reason found impracticable to extend voting as widely as to include parish councils it would still he this Association's wish that it should extend to rural district council elections. The noble Lord, Lord Brooke, made a very valid point about travelling in rural districts where, generally speaking, voters have to travel greater distances to record their votes than people in urban areas do. Therefore, by any computation, people living in rural areas have as much, and probably more, need for the right of the postal vote than people living in urban areas. Since those who do the extra work are also in favour, the Government are convinced that this is an improvement which the electorate will welcome and that we should make it. Therefore, I would advise your Lordships to accept the Amendment.

LORD BROOKE OF CUMNOR

My Lords, I am deeply grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Stonham, for what he has said. I appreciate that he must have had to go into the matter carefully to satisfy himself that the objections, which had seemed to be cogent over the past twenty years, were no longer so pressing as they were. I agree with him that this will be a substantial improvement for a large number of people who for one reason or another would not be able to reach a polling station in person but would be entitled by the general law to cast their votes by post. I express my gratitude to him. I should also like to put on record that here is a case where your Lordships' House, the non-elected Chamber, is able to be instrumental in bring about a material improvement in the system of democratic election for the country.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 8 [Limit on, and declaration and publication of, election expenses]:

4.33 p.m.

LORD STONHAM moved Amendment No. 2: Page 7, line 10, leave out ("doubled") and insert ("twice or, if there has been a previous increase under this subsection, three times what it would have been but for any increase under this subsection;").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 2 and with this Amendment, I should like to discuss Amendment No. 3. Clause 8, as amended in Committee, provides for the expenses of the surviving candidates at an election which has been countermanded or abandoned, on the death of a candidate, under Clause 13. The further Amendments are necessary to make it clear that in the event of a second death of a candidate the permitted expenses of the surviving candidates would not again be doubled, so as to entitle them to four times the amount permitted in the case of a poll held in the ordinary way, but would be increased to three times the normal amount, which is the right figure.

Amendment No. 2 operates on subsection (2) of Clause 8, which deals with candidates' expenses. Amendment No. 3 operates on subsection (3). This prescribes the maximum amount of election expenses at ward elections in the City of London and, as amended in Committee, applies to those elections the provision made by subsection (2) for additional expenses for surviving candidates at a further election.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 3.

Amendment moved— Page 7, line 19, leave out ("doubling") and insert ("increasing").—(Lord Stonham.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 19 [Timing of elections, and of steps at elections]:

LORD STONHAM moved Amendment No. 4:

Page 15, line 24, at end insert:— ("() In relation to the period within which any local government election is to EH; held, and in relation to the day of election at any local government election, section 295 of the Local Government Act 1933 shall haw effect as if the days mentioned in section 295(1) included any day of the Christmas break, the Easter break or a bank holiday break within the meaning of rule 2 of the local elections rules as amended by subsection (3) above; and in section 295(2) (under which, if an election is postponed, the day on which it is held is to be treated as the day of election for all purposes of that Act) the reference to the purposes of that Act shall include the purposes of the Representation of the People Acts. This subsection shall apply to elections of elective auditors as it applies to local government elections.")

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 4. This is a technical Amendment, required to bring Section 295 of the Local Government Act 1933 into line with the Representation of the People Acts 1948 and 1949 as amended by Clause 19 of the Representation of the People Bill. Section 295 of the Act of 1933 deals with computation of time for the purposes of that Act, including local government elections. The provisions of the Representation of the People Acts 1948 and 1949 operated on by Clause 19 of the Bill also deal with computation of time for the purposes of elections, including local government elections. As a result of the amendments made by Clause 19, Section 295 is now in conflict with the relevant provisions of the Representation of the People Acts 1948 and 1949. This Amendment will resolve that conflict.

In view of the earlier discussion we had on gin traps, I should say that the Amendment does not, and need not, apply to Scotland. There is no conflict between the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1947, Section 366, and the Scottish Local Elections Rules, which appear as Schedule 3 to the Representation of the People Act 1949 and which are not affected by Clause 19 of the Bill.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 22 [Summary prosecutions of offences at local elections]:

LORD STONHAM moved Amendment No. 5:

Page 16, line 14, at beginning insert— ("(1) In section 155 of the Representation of the People Act 1949 (which, in relation to parliamentary elections, makes provision as to the prosecution of offences committed outside the United Kingdom by British subjects or citizens of the Republic of Ireland) in subsection (1) the words 'so far as it relates to parliamentary elections,' shall be omitted. (2)")

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 5. The purpose of this Amendment is to extend to local government elections in the United Kingdom the provisions in Section 155 of the Representation of the People Act 1949 about prosecutions for electoral offences committed outside the United Kingdom. Hitherto the Bill has provided, in paragraph 20 of Schedule 2, for Section 155 to be extended to offences at local government elections in relation only to broadcasts from outside the United Kingdom. Such broadcasts are, by Section 80 of the Representation of the People Act 1949, illegal ill respect of Parliamentary elections, but Clause 9(4) of the Bill extends Section 80 of the 1949 Act so as to make it apply to broadcasts from outside the United Kingdom relating to local government elections. It has been thought advisable to generalise the application of Section 155 of the 1949 Act to all offences at local government elections, rather than make specific mention only of offences against Section 80.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Schedule 2 [Consequential and supplementary amendments of Representation of the People Act 1949]:

LORD STONHAM moved Amendment No. 6:

Page 27, line 3, at end insert: ("(2) In section 8(2) proviso there shall be omitted paragraphs (a) and (b) (which make provision against a person being registered as a local government elector more than once in any area or being registered as a non-resident if entitled to be registered as a resident).").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 6. This is a largely technical Amendment, the purpose of which is to remove paragraphs (a) and (b) of the proviso to Section 8(2) of the Representation of the people Act 1949. With the abolition of the nonresident franchise and the bringing of the local government franchise (Peers apart) into line with the Parliamentary franchise, these paragraphs are no longer required or, as regards paragraph (a) in particular, workable.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, this Amendment is consequential on Amendment No. 5, which we have just approved. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 31, leave out lines 28 to 34.—(Lord Stonham.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Schedule 3 [Repeals]:

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 8. This is a purely drafting Amendment, which corrects a clerical error.

Amendment moved— Page 38, line 23, column 3, leave out ("paragraph 2") and insert ("sub-paragraph (2)").—(Lord Stonham.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD STONHAM moved Amendment No. 9: Page 38, line 46, column 3, leave out from ("proviso") to second ("and") in line 48, and insert ("paragraphs (a) and (b)").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 9, and with your Lordships' permission I should like to include in this Amendments Nos. 10 and 11. These three Amendments are additions to the repeals Schedule of the Bill, and they are consequential on the Amendment to page 27, line 3 of Schedule 2. I beg to move.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Amendment moved— Page 39, line 24, column 3, at end insert ("subsection (2)(d),").—(Lord Stonham.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Amendment moved— Page 39, line 29, column 3, at end insert ("and the following words").—(Lord Stonham.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Schedule 4 [Insertions authorised in Representation of the People Act 1949 in revised edition of Statutes]:

LORD STONHAM moved Amendment No. 12: Page 41, line 49, at end insert ("and, in the Scottish local elections rules, substituting for the word constituency' the words 'electoral area'")

The noble Lord said: My Lords, lines 45 to 49 on page 41 of the Bill provide that, in any revised edition of the Statutes published by authority, Clause 6(5) is to be inserted as Rule 4(1A) in the Scottish Local Elections Rules (Representation of the People Act 1949, Schedule 3) with the omission of the words "at parliamentary elections". However, Clause 6(5) also contains the word "constituency", and in inserting the provision of the Statutes it would be necessary for this to read "electoral area". That is the purpose of this Amendment. I beg to move.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.