HL Deb 18 February 1969 vol 299 cc687-9

2.40 p.m.

BARONESS STOCKS

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will take steps to promote an impartial inquiry into ritual slaughter, in view of conflicting statements and widespread concern in this matter, and in view of a recent statement by the President of the British Veterinary Association that his Association would be prepared to service such an inquiry.]

LORD BESWICK

My Lords it appears to Her Majesty's Government that the subject is one on which, on the basis of existing knowledge, no agreed conclusion is likely to be reached. Scientific authorities have always held, and still hold, conflicting opinions on whether ritual slaughter is more or less humane than other permitted methods. In these circumstances it does not seem that any useful purpose would be served by a Government inquiry.

BARONESS STOCKS

My Lords, am I right in thinking that the last inquiry in this country was in 1933 and that it was held by the Royal Veterinary Association: in which case would it not be a good thing to let them loose on it again? They might at least come to a conclusion in the light of the latest knowledge on this matter, of which apparently there is now a great deal circulating.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, there is now a good deal of conflicting information circulating. The matter has been discussed on several occasions since the date mentioned by my noble friend, and so far it has not been possible to get any agreed basis of fact on the matter.

LORD SEGAL

My Lords, would it not be a grave disservice to this country to set up an inquiry into such a highly emotive issue and one which touches very deeply the religious susceptibilities of large sections of our community?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, with all due respect to my noble friend, I think that I am better advised to stick to my words: that no useful purpose would be served.

BARONESS STOCKS

My Lords, is it not a fact that controversy is at the moment raging? It is important to find out whether there is some means of settling it. After all, it is a long time since an inquiry was held, and much has happened since.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I understand that the matter was raised in "Any Questions" on the radio, but I would not have said that that necessarily meant that controversy was raging. Different views have been expressed but, as I have said, there is no agreement among scientific opinion on this matter. All the different views and opinions are known to the Minister, and if any authoritative body wished to set up an inquiry themselves the Government would be glad to give them what service and assistance they could.

LORD JESSEL

My Lords, would the noble Lord suggest to the noble Baroness that she might read the debate which took place in this House on this subject some two years ago?

LORD BESWICK

Yes, my Lords, there was such a debate in this House on December 3, 1962. I read the debate with great interest this morning and would recommend it to my noble friend.

BARONESS STOCKS

My Lords, I am prepared to believe almost anything that is said in this noble House, but there may be expert views which, perhaps, on some particular subjects are beyond it.

LORD SEGAL

My Lords, whatever may be the argument for or against this method, would it not be rather unfortunate to add to existing racial tensions by stirring up religious tensions on such a highly controversial issue?

BARONESS STOCKS

My Lords, is it not possible that if only we could get some agreed conclusion, religious tensions would be diminished rather than increased? Because there is great danger at the present time of religious tensions being increased by the fact that large numbers of people believe that a certain form of slaughter is cruel.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I absolutely agree with my noble friend. If we could get an agreed conclusion it would do much to damp down this controversy. But the prospect of getting an agreed conclusion is not very clear.

LORD SOMERS

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the vast majority of the more liberal-minded Jews in this country are themselves heartily against this practice and that it is only a very small body of the Board of Deputies and the more orthodox Jews who insist on its retention?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I remember that that point of view was expressed very strongly by my noble friend Lady Summerskill in the debate on December 3, 1962, but it was a view which was not agreed to by other very liberal and very eminent Jewish Members of your Lordships' House.

BARONESS STOCKS

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that fairly recently there has been some controversy in the Jewish Chronicle on the subject of the actual technique of slaughter?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I am not denying anything that my noble friend says. Of course there is controversy. The trouble is that the controversy includes people with different points of view, and all the information that is brought by one side is controverted by information brought from the other side. In these circumstances there seems little purpose to be served in having a Government inquiry.