§ 3.41 p.m.
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, with the leave of the House, I should like to answer a Private Notice Question asked earlier by the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare. I shall do this by repeating an Answer being given in another place to a similar Question. The Answer is as follows:
"In March the Burnham Committee concluded an agreement on new scales of salary for schoolteachers in England and Wales to run for two years, until March 31, 1971. The agreement represented an increase in the salary bill of 7.1 per cent. In October the teachers' panel presented a new claim for a further increase, to run from April 1, 1970 (that is, in midterm of the current agreement), of £135 a year for all teachers. I estimate that this would cost £44 million or 8½ per cent. of the total salaries bill. At a meeting of the Committee on November 10, the teachers' panel rejected a management panel offer of £50 and the Committee then agreed to adjourn for about one month. It is to meet again on December 15."
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, all your Lordships will be grateful to the noble Baroness for repeating that Answer given to the Private Notice Question. I am sure that all of us deeply deplore the strike of teachers. We recognise that they 29 are a devoted profession, often working in overcrowded and difficult circumstances. Nevertheless, we must deeply regret this kind of action, particularly as it is our children who arc the chief sufferers, and especially while negotiations are still in progress in the Burnham Committee.
Surely the underlying reason why the teachers have taken this drastic action is the complete collapse of the Government's prices and incomes policy. The teachers accepted a 3½ per cent. per annum rise last April on the understanding that this was the limit imposed by the incomes policy. Now they see dustmen receiving 16 per cent. and firemen 14 per cent. No wonder, my Lords, that they are up in arms!
I should like to ask the noble Baroness this question. Is it not a fact that the global sum available to the local education authority representatives on the negotiating committee is decided by the Government? Have the Government made up their mind what this figure is and communicated it to the local education authority representatives in order that at the meeting of the Burnham Committee on December 15 they may be in a position to make a further offer and reopen negotiations? This is essential if we are to avoid a long period of unrest in our schools.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, is not the problem more fundamental than that? I think the teachers have lost confidence in the salary system under which they operate. Is it not clear that the Burnham system is now completely out of date, and that we should be asking for an immediate inquiry to be set up in which the teachers can have confidence? Can the Minister say anything about that?
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, noble Lords will not expect me to comment on the wider issue. As noble Lords will remember, the Burnham Committee is an independent body which was set up under an Act of Parliament as recently as 1965. The panel itself has roughly a 50/50 representation, including two from the Department of Education and Science. So far as Lord Aberdare's question is concerned, I am afraid that 30 I am unable to give him a precise answer now, but I will let him have one later. While my right honourable friend has made some reference to the fact that he regrets the teachers' decision to strike, he has also made the point that he could not deny their right to do so, and, indeed, that action has been taken to ensure that the children's welfare is safeguarded in this connection.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether she is aware of the fact that those people who rely for information on the normal media of the Press, television and radio have not the slightest idea as to the accuracy of the alleged figures which are given relating to the earnings of teachers? Is she aware that in some cases the figures given appear to be both parsimonious and miserable, while on the other hand some of them seem to be very handsome indeed? Could my noble friend ask her right honourable friend to make public, in a White Paper or otherwise, an objective list of the actual salaries paid to teachers?
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, I at once accept what my noble friend has said. It is very rarely easy for ordinary citizens to discover the full facts on any matter under discussion. The amounts, of course, are quite easily available and I could give them to my noble friend now. But there are various additional payments which mean that the basic salaries would not give a complete picture. At the moment, the basic scale is £860 rising to £1,600. We must remember, however, that there are allowances, graded posts, posts of special responsibility and so on in addition.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that the figure of £860 which she has quoted is what one has to pay to-day for a 17 year old typist?
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, I am well aware of that fact, and I am equally aware that our sense of values is something which in many senses may have gone awry. I am sure that this is not the moment to go into that matter; nor can the noble Lord blame the Government for it.