HL Deb 30 January 1968 vol 288 cc699-701

2.39 p.m.

THE EARL OF BUCKINGHAMSHIRE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether there is to be any announcement on overseas aid and if not, why not; and further whether they think that Britain can still afford to give away money, interest free, to countries who have shown little gratitude.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS (LORD SHEPHERD)

My Lords, I would refer my noble friend to the statement made by the Minister of Overseas Development in another place on January 18 in reply to Questions.

THE LORD BISHOP OF CHESTER

My Lords, will the noble Lord take note of the large number of people who are profoundly thankful that overseas aid was not the subject of recent cuts, and would very much regret it if it were in future?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, this was a subject to which the Government gave very careful thought, and I am sure that the words of the right reverend Prelate would be generally accepted throughout the country, despite the economic restrictions which we need to place upon ourselves in our present economic circumstances.

THE EARL OF BUCKINGHAMSHIRE

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, though the expenditure on our housing, our Forces and our roads has all been cut, not one penny has been cut from the £200 million that we are giving away each year abroad? Can he give us some assurance that this expenditure will be cut?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, the figure of some £205 million is the ceiling we have placed upon overseas aid for the years 1968–69 and 1969–70, and these are firm figures. In regard to our own difficulties and those of our friends overseas, may I say that it will not require a tremendous effort on the part of this country to get out of our economic difficulties if we have the will, but when one looks at the economic difficulties of many countries overseas, some now dependent upon us, one sees that they will require long-term and heavy assistance if they are to have a reasonable economy.

LORD PEDDIE

My Lords, would my noble friend agree that it is extremely naïve to believe that overseas aid can be considered as giving away money; and that, rather, the aid to the developing economies finds its reflection, at a very early date, in increased demand for British goods?

LORD BYERS

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord to remind the noble Earl that it is not just Governments which are involved, but individuals?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, I am glad of the support given me from both sides of the House, at least from my side and the Liberal Benches. I personally would regard this aid as an investment in peace. In the end these countries will have to develop, and if we are to avoid all the dangers which we know exist I am sure they can best be avoided by bringing these people up to a decent standard of living.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the very deep appreciation of the majority of Members on this side of the House at the reply given?

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that he has referred in his Answer to our friends abroad, but what worries many people about some of this aid is that it appears to be extended to our enemies abroad?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, the noble Lords refers to enemies. I am not aware of any country to which we give aid that any one of us could classify as an enemy. We give aid to people as the noble Lord, Lord Byers, has suggested, and I am sure that this is a policy which the whole House, perhaps with some exceptions, thoroughly approves.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I deliberately did not express objections to all aid that is being given? But he himself used the expression "our friends" abroad. Am I to understand from that that the Government are limiting their aid to those who they think qualify for that description?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, I am clearly aware that some countries to which we give aid from time to time do not agree with us in a particular international policy, but that does not mean that they are enemies. We in fact give aid to our friends overseas.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, is it a sign of friendship if they break off diplomatic relations with this country to show their disgust with us?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, it depends upon the circumstances in which they break off diplomatic relations.

LORD GRIDLEY

My Lords, are not some of our friends abroad who are in receipt of aid some of those who perhaps exhibit an excessive nationalism which will disappear with the passing of time? And have we not, all of us, a moral obligation to support the Government in the continuance of this aid?