HL Deb 25 October 1967 vol 285 cc1649-51
THE EARL OF ALBEMARLE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether their vouching agents have been instructed, at the time of allotting the voucher to an immigrant, strictly to limit the number of his dependants subsequently allowed to join him here.]

LORD STONHAM

No, my Lords. The wife and children under 16 of a Commonwealth citizen who is resident in the United Kingdom have a statutory right to come here. Other dependants have no right of admission, although those within certain limited categories may be admitted, in the exercise of discretion, in accordance with the published instructions which my right honourable friend has issued to immigration officers.

LORD ST. HELENS

My Lords, would not the Government reconsider the position which requires a potential immigrant to enter into his form of application the number of dependants whom he proposes to bring in later on? And, further, would not the Government consider adding the sum total of the immigrant and his dependants, and keeping them within the overall figure of immigrants who are allowed within that year?

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, there can be no overall figure of the immigrants allowed in in any one year, because we do not know the total number of dependants still abroad who have a statutory right to come here; still less do we know the number who might wish to exercise that right in any particular year. There can be no question of an overall number. But when immigrants come here the immigration officers do inquire the number of their dependants abroad. Understandably, the information is not always reliable, and it is not processed. Therefore, we do not know the total numbers.

THE EARL OF ALBEMARLE

My Lords, I should like to ask my last supplementary question. Is it not possible for the Government to say to vouching agents, "When you accept a person for voucher, will you find out what he has in the way of family"—that is, adopted sons, stepsons, double wives and I do not know what?

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, we do that already. We have been into this subject already, and the noble Earl has had this information. I will again send him a copy of the form which intending applicants for vouchers have to complete, from which he will see that we already obtain the information of which he speaks.

LORD AILWYN

My Lords, would the noble Lord not agree that the Government's reply to my noble friend is wholly unsatisfactory? This is a question which is rapidly assuming alarming proportions in this country, and constitutes, in the view of a great number of people, a vital principle which continues to receive inadequate Government attention.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, I cannot accept that it was an unsatisfactory reply, although the noble Lord is entitled to his opinion. I would remind him that this statutory right was derived from the 1962 Act, which was instituted by the previous Administration. It was thought satisfactory then, and is has been thought satisfactory since. We have made a considerable reduction in the number of voucher-holders. In fact, the number of immigrants who came in on vouchers last year was only 5,461, so inevitably in due course the number of dependants who come in is likely to fall.

2.40 p.m.

LORD BROOKE OF CUMNOR

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord who is speaking for the Government whether he will be good enough to cease saying that the Act that was passed in 1962 is necessarily perfect in all respects, and whether he will ask his colleagues in the Government to apply their minds to the importance of amending that Act in certain respects—an importance which is now very widely recognised?

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, I was not suggesting that the 1962 Act, or indeed any other Act, is perfect in all respects, but I was making the legitimate point that the present position is no new one. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary, and his Department, are indeed constantly applying their minds to this problem, and some administrative changes have been made. On this particular point of dependants coming over here to join husbands and fathers, we think that humanity really demands, and common sense requires, that they should be able to come over and be a family here, because that is the only way they can be properly integrated into our community.

LORD BROOKE OF CUMNOR

My Lords, almost everybody would accept what the noble Lord has just said, but it is not the Question on the Paper. The Question on the Paper relates to people coming here in the future, and I hope the noble Lord will be good enough to address his mind to the possibility that, in granting permission to come here, the Government should take into consideration the total number of people who will be likely to come if a single voucher is issued to a person with many dependants.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, I have already said—and of this the noble Lord must be aware—that when we admit a voucher-holder we are then aware of his stated number of dependants, but we do not know the total number of dependants who have an entitlement. We are constantly considering this question, but we have no present intention of destroying the statutory rights to which I have referred, and I think it would cause a very great deal of distress, and occasion a great deal of unfairness and injustice, if we did so.