§ 2.40 p.m.
§ LORD ST. HELENSMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government when legislation will be brought forward to embody the results of the Review of the Social Services initiated in 1964; what those results have been; and when the economic growth necessary to pay for them will be achieved.]
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, items of legislation arising from the Government's review of social security have been brought forward as they have become ready, and this process will continue. The growth of the economy is one of the factors taken into account in determining when particular measures are submitted to Parliament.
§ LORD ST. HELENSMy Lords, while thanking the noble Earl for his Answer, may I ask him this further question? Since during the last two Elections Government spokesmen have emphatically denied that they would increase taxation and have promised that improvements in social benefits would be paid out of economic expansion, and since now both these promises have proven to be broken—taxation having risen substantially, and 998 economic advancement having lapsed into stagnation—what are the Government going to do in relation to changing their plans?
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, the noble Lord has told us that the Government said at both the last Elections that there would not be an increase in taxation. I am afraid that I should need chapter and verse before accepting that statement.
§ SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Oh!
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDThe noble Lord just announces this, but I should need chapter and verse. I am not going to accept it from the noble Lord or from anybody else without chapter and verse, so that that part of the question hardly arises. The noble Lord, I am sure, shares with us our desire to see these social services extended further. There have been many large improvements since 1964, and as we overcome the crisis, which is, after all, the ultimate outcome of the thirteen years of Tory Government, we shall be able to expand the social services.
§ LORD ST. HELENSMy Lords, does the Leader of the House realise that I do not accept any of the insinuations he has made against the excellent thirteen years of Tory rule; and, furthermore, that the Government are now stewing in their own juice—
§ LORD ST. HELENS—that they have cooked themselves? And I should like to know how they propose to pay for these increases in social benefit, since the "economic expansion" is, in fact, stagnant.
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, if I may say so, the noble Lord is wrong in thinking that no economic expansion is taking place, and as we recover from the effects of all these wasted years, so the economic expansion will gather force.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that the noble Lord who put down this Question can have no idea of the work or the provisions of the Social Security Ministry; otherwise he would never have put the Question on the Order Paper?
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, I had not thought of that point, but now that it has been mentioned by the noble Lady, I entirely agree.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, is it not a fact that during these alleged "thirteen wasted years" a higher standard of living was enjoyed by a greater number of people than ever before in this country?
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, it would have been almost impossible, even for the late Government, to prevent that happening, when we think of what was happening all over the world.
LORD HAWKEMy Lords, when the noble Lord the Leader of the House is talking about there being no stagnation, is he talking about 1964 prices or 1967 prices?
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, I was talking about the thirteen wasted years.
§ LORD ST. HELENSMy Lords, may I further ask the noble Lord, since he claims that there is economic expansion, how he accounts for the Answer given to a Question in this House, I think on Thursday last, that industrial investment had decreased by 10 per cent.?
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, one must choose one's dates carefully.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord could explain to the House precisely what he means by "crisis"? It used to mean a climax, but he now uses it to describe a permanent state of affairs. Am I right?
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, if the noble Lord is anxious to know my reply; and if he wants to know whether he is right or wrong, and is really going to accept my opinion, the answer is that he is wrong.