§ 2.49 p.m.
LORD FARINGDONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the difficulty of recruiting suitable men for the civilian uniformed services (Police, Fire Services, et cetera) they will consider the possibility of obtaining additional personnel from among members of the 522 Armed Forces who are redundant or completing their terms of service; and to this end in order to make engagement in such services more attractive, whether they will consider the possibility of allowing length of service in the Armed Forces to be taken into account when calculating entitlement to pension.]
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, ex-Service men with the necessary qualifications are eligible to join the civilian uniformed services and are welcome recruits. The superannuation schemes in the Police and Fire Services, for example, provide for half-pay pension at age 50 or above, after twenty-five years' police or fire service, and a pension equal to two-thirds of pay after thirty years. For those who are unable to complete twenty-five years' service before pension able age there are arrangements for short-service pensions which are very favourable to late entrants, including those my noble friend has in mind. Her Majesty's Government consider that they offer a sufficient inducement.
LORD FARINGDONMy Lords, I thank my noble friend very much for his very helpful Answer. On the other hand, is it not a fact that all the civilian uniformed services, the Police, the Prison Service and the Fire Service, are undermanned? If they are so undermanned, might it not be worth while considering additional attractions, in order to get the men needed? Is my noble friend not aware that those men who have completed a period of service in a disciplined service are particularly valuable for the uniformed civilian services? Cannot he reconsider the situation and add to its effectiveness?
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, I agree with my noble friend that there is some shortage in the three civilian uniformed services to which he referred. The Police Advisory Board Working Party on Manpower recently considered recruitment to the Police Service and recommended an age-limit concession to attract ex-Service men. Their recommendation that ex-Service men should be eligible to join the police up to the age of 40, instead of to the normal upper age limit of 30, has been endorsed by the Police Advisory Board and accepted by my right honourable friend the Home Secretary, and a 523 regulation to give effect to it will be laid before the House soon. The concession will also apply to former merchant seamen. In order to encourage the recruitment of Regular members of the Armed Forces into the Fire Service, the Fire Service (Appointments and Promotion) Regulations already provide that, whereas the normal age limit for entry into the service of a whole-time member is 31, persons who have completed a fixed period of service in the Regular Armed Forces of the Crown are permitted to join up to the age of 35 years.
§ LORD MITCHISONMy Lords, is not the suggestion of my noble friend particularly worthy of consideration by a Government who are pledged to transferable pensions outside the public service?
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, I agree with my noble friend.
LORD FARINGDONMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for his reply, which is very full and helpful. I wonder whether he can tell me the percentage of men who, on finishing their period in the Armed Forces, in fact go into one of these civilian services?
§ LORD BOWLESNo, my Lords, I am afraid I cannot tell my noble friend that. I am not certain that everyone who has been in uniform for about 22 years would wish to put on another uniform. It is just one of those things: some people like being in unform, and some do not.
§ VISCOUNT MOUNTGARRETMy Lords, I think the noble Lord, Lord Faringdon, has made a very interesting point. I would ask the Government to bear in mind that the possibility of recruiting men for the Forces as a whole might well suffer very badly unless they can produce come form of inducement to people to join the civilian uniformed services, which are very short of manpower. The advertisements which the Ministry of Defence seem to produce are far—
§ SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Order!
§ THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (THE EARL OF LONGFORD)My Lords, perhaps I ought to point out to the noble Viscount that he should put his remarks in the form of a question.
§ VISCOUNT MOUNTGARRETMy Lords, I thank the noble Earl, and apologise to your Lordships. I wish to support the noble Lord, Lord Faringdon, and ask whether the Government would be prepared to give the Question serious consideration, for I feel that the terms offered to men joining the services at the moment are not sufficiently attractive to encourage recruitment.
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, I told the House that my right honourable friend has set up an inquiry and that some of the recommendations of that inquiry to encourage further recruitment are being set in force very soon by Order in Council.