WEST INDIES BILL (Hansard, 16 February 1967)

§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS (LORD BESWICK)
My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a third time.

EARL JELLICOE
I am sorry to interrupt, but I thought the noble Lord was going to make a statement.

§ LORD BESWICK
That will be on the next Motion, "That the Bill do now pass". My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill do now pass. At the Committee stage of this Bill the noble Earl, Lord Jellicoe, asked me whether I could give him some further information about the provisions for implementing the Conference Report which decided the Constitution for the Associated State of St. Kitts. I am grateful to the noble Earl for giving me the opportunity of going deeply into the matter which he raised and for enabling me to get the latest information. I hope I can now satisfy him and, indeed, those other noble Lords who raised the problem in this House, as well as the delegation from St. Kitts which has seen the noble Earl and other Members of your Lordships' House.
The position is as follows. The noble Earl called attention to the provision in paragraph 50 of the Conference Report that there should be a Council for Nevis and a Council for Anguilla, and also to the additional provisions in paragraph 14 of the Conference Report about the procedure to he followed in the event of any alteration in the Constitution regarding these local government provisions. The noble Earl asked—and, indeed, my noble friend Lord Willis demanded—that we 410 should make absolutely certain that these provisions were written into the Constitution. That assurance I can now give. The Constitution which has been drafted, which will come into force by Order in Council, faithfully and fully meets the provisions of both paragraph 50 and paragraph 14.
The noble Earl then referred at the Committee stage to a Bill which was being discussed by the Central Government of St. Kitts and which will establish the local Councils required under the Constitution. This Bill is being drafted in St. Kitts, by the Executive Council there, along guidelines put forward by an expert from the Ministry of Overseas Development; and, naturally, that official has every reason for ensuring that the Bill will be in accordance with the Constitution. Any suggestion that anything is being done to try to frustrate the requirements of the Constitution is, I am sure the noble Earl will agree, quite contrary to any motive which the local government expert from the Ministry of Overseas Development is likely to have. I hope, therefore, that the noble Earl will be able to put out of his mind any fear that there is any kind of underhand move afoot.
The noble Earl's fears rested upon certain words, which he read out at the Committee stage, which he had been told were in a document discussed by the Executive Council of St. Kitts just before Christmas, and which referred to the power of the Central Government "to suspend or abolish an Island Council". Actually, the words he read out do not accurately reflect the intentions of a reference which there will be in the legislation now being drafted in St. Kitts. In that Bill there is reference to powers which will remain with the Central Government to dissolve a Council which persistently defaults in carrying out its statutory duties. I hope that the noble Earl, who has been subjected to a certain amount of cross-fire, will appreciate the importance of this provision. If, unhappily, the occasion should arise when it is necessary for the Central Government to dissolve a Council, the Bill as now drafted makes provision for elections to be held within three months of any such dissolution. This power to dissolve a Council on these grounds is, I am told, common form in comparable legislation in other territories in that area, 411 notably St. Lucia, St. Vincent and Barbados, and there are similar powers in other parts of the world. Even in this country, I think the noble Earl will agree, there is power for the Central Government to take action to ensure that any local authority fulfils the functions for which it was elected.
I was also asked by the noble Earl whether the two gentlemen to whom he referred could be seen by a Minister from the Commonwealth Office. I am glad to say that provision was made for a meeting to be held with the Minister of State, and that that meeting has taken place. I beg to move.

EARL JELLICOE
My Lords, I made it clear on Second Reading, speaking from this Bench, that the Opposition supported this Bill. We welcomed the new principle of association which is incorporated in it; and we also felt that the fact that agreement had been reached, in some cases not without difficulty, reflected a very great measure of credit upon everyone concerned, both in the Caribbean and here. I do not in any way depart from that general endorsement of the Bill. I made no apology at Committee stage for raising the not unimportant point with which the noble Lord has just dealt, and I make no apology for coming back to it now, very briefly, because while it is true that this matter concerns only local government in these two islands, the full attendance in your Lordships' House this afternoon shows that matters of local government can excite a certain amount of passionate feeling. It is also true that it concerns only two relatively small communities, but I know that the noble Lord agrees with me that size is not the criterion here. We still hold the ultimate constitutional responsibility in relation to these islands, and it is very important that, before they attain the new status of association, everybody should be persuaded that effect will be given to the agreed constitutional arrangements. I am grateful to the noble Lord for the statement which he has just made, and, through him, I should also like to express gratitude to the Minister of State at the Commonwealth Office for seeing the two gentlemen, the representatives of the People's Action Movement.
412 There are two matters, however, which still concern me. The first is the degree of actual disturbance in these communities at the present time. I have before me a cable addressed to Dr. Herbert, the President of the People's Action Movement, from the secretary of the People's Action Movement in St. Kitts, which reads as follows: Defence force called out on the 14th of February. Round the clock guard on all Government property at St. Kitts. Marines and local police landed Anguilla 4 a.m. 15th July from H.M.S. Salisbury. More arrests made. Anguilla celebrations cancelled. Will notify of further developments. I am not informed about developments in Anguilla, but as a vessel of the Royal Navy has been employed in the last 24 hours in an operation there, the noble Lord will presumably have the information and will be able to let us know the position there.
It would appear, at least on the face of it, that there is considerable concern in these two communities at the present time. I hope and trust that what the noble Lord has just said by way of reassurance will go at least some way to reassure them, but I think he would make reassurance doubly sure if he could confirm to me here and now that he is utterly satisfied that the arrangements concerning the dissolution of a council, to which he referred in his speech just now, are in his view completely compatible with both the spirit and the letter of the agreed Report, and in particular with paragraphs 14 and 50, to which we referred at the Committee stage.
I do not know whether the noble Lord can give us further information regarding the actual state of security in these three communities at the present time, and also further assurances. If he is not able to do that, I should have thought that there might be a case for postponing for a short period of time the actual passing to the state of association, as was contemplated in not dissimilar circumstances with regard to St. Vincents. Happily, agreement has now been reached in St. Vincents, and I should have thought that, with the good will of all concerned, if the provisions for local government are still arousing concern, agreement could be reached speedily between the two main parties in the island. I should be grateful for any further assurance the noble Lord can give me on this point, which 413 seems to be arousing a good deal of concern and passion and, perhaps, causing disturbances in the islands.

§ LORD WILLIS
My Lords, before the noble Lord replies, I should like to add my thanks to those already expressed for the statement made by the Minister, and for the fact that the Minister of State did see the representatives from the People's Action Movement. I accept the assurances given to-day. I think they are adequate, although I should like strongly to support the further questions raised by the noble Earl, Lord Jellicoe.

§ LORD BESWICK
So far as an assurance is concerned, I can give categorically, without any qualification, the assurance asked for. The Constitution, as drafted, will fulfil the agreement reached at the conference between the United Kingdom Government on the one hand, and representatives of the islands on the other. There is no doubt at all about that. So far as the Bill is concerned, to the best of my knowledge and belief, and on the best advice I can secure, that is in accordance with the Constitution. If, on the other hand, it so happened that the Government of St. Kitts attempted to pass legislation contrary to the Constitution it would, of course, be quite proper to challenge that legislation in the court. I make that point as an additional safeguard. I have no reason at all to believe that the Bill as drafted does contravene the Constitution.

EARL JELLICOE
My Lords, may I interrupt the noble Lord? Would there be an appeal to the Privy Council in that case?

§ LORD BESWICK
Yes, my Lords. I dealt, following the question of the noble Lord, Lord Ogmore, with the fact that there is a Supreme Court, which is accepted as common to the Associated States, and that there is right of appeal to the Privy Council. The noble Earl also asked about the local situation, particularly the disturbances about which he has received a report. There is a great deal of excitement there. They have had elections; 414 they are about to move forward to this new status and this new Constitution. There is a certain amount of argument as to whether the last election settled the issues satisfactorily. I can see a number of noble Lords in this House, some who formerly, having fought an election and having won or lost that election, afterwards felt that the vote might have gone another way if only something else had happened. As I understand the situation on this island—and it is the same in St. Vincent—the result was a narrow one; and the losing side would like to have the opportunity of another "go", thinking that another election might yield a different result. There has been an election, fairly held, which elected the Government. There is no reason why that Government should not now go forward to Independence Day, and to the assumption of the new powers under the new Constitution.
I was asked a question about the position of Her Majesty's ship. It is true that a ship went there; but the latest information I have was that there was no reason at all for any personnel to be landed from that ship. Their presence was not required. I would add another point, and I say it entirely without any offence to the noble Earl. I understand that the success which the two petitioners had when the matter was last raised in this House gave them a certain amount of moral support, and on the basis of that they stimulated the activity of their followers in Anguilla. I hope that both the noble Earl and my noble friend Lord Willis are satisfied with the assurance I have given to-day; that the petitioners, too, feel that what is being done is in accordance with the Constitution; that they will, from now on, co-operate in ensuring that Independence Day is a happy day; and that the people can, after independence, have an election at the proper time, which will be in 1968.