§ 3.18 p.m.
§ LORD CRAWSHAWMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the fact that at least 49 per cent. of primary outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease are associated with foreign meat (Hansard, November 30, 1967, bottom of col. 228), they will permanently ban the import of meat from countries where foot-and-mouth disease is endemic, so as to avoid frustrating the present drastic slaughter policy by the import of further virus.]
1249§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, the suspension of imports from certain countries announced on December 4 is a temporary measure intended to minimise the risk of any new primary outbreak while the present emergency is being brought under control. My right honourable friend has said that when the present epidemic is over he will set up an independent committee to examine our policy and arrangements for dealing with foot-and-mouth disease and to advise whether any changes are necessary.
§ LORD CRAWSHAWMy Lords, may I thank the noble Lord for his reply? I quite appreciate the problem which the Minister has on his hands at the moment. But will the noble Lord, in view of that high figure of 49 per cent. which he kindly supplied to me the other day, make certain that very serious thought is brought to bear on such restrictions as I have mentioned, and that, although other considerations may come up when there is an inquiry, primary importance is given to the protection of our herds in this country?
§ LORD BESWICKYes, my Lords. I think I ought to point out, however, that the answer which I gave to the noble Lord earlier did emphasise that the evidence on which the 49 per cent. figure was based was only circumstantial. But, clearly, the question of a permanent ban on imports must be one of the matters which the Committee of Inquiry will have to consider, and I should have thought it would be wrong for me, or any member of the Government, to prejudge the issue before seeing the recommendations of that Committee.
THE DUKE OF ATHOLLMy Lords, would the noble Lord confirm that the temporary ban on imports will be continued until the Committee of Inquiry have come to a conclusion one way or the other, and if they recommend that the ban should be made permanent that it will be continued until it can be made permanent?
§ LORD BESWICKNo, my Lords, I cannot confirm that. The undertaking was that these imports would be banned until the present epidemic had been brought under control.
THE DUKE OF ATHOLLSo we shall still be able to have imports between 1250 the time the present epidemic is brought under control and the time the Committee of Inquiry reports?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, what I have said is that the present ban will extend until the present epidemic has been brought under control.
§ LORD OAKSHOTTMy Lords, in the light of the question on imported meat raised by my noble friend Lord Crawshaw, has the noble Lord any information which he can give the House about the experiences of the Republic of Ireland in this regard? For example, is it true that they have not had an outbreak since 1941 and that they have banned the import of foreign meat since 1940? And is it not significant, in the light of the circumstances which the noble Lord has promised are going to take place?
§ LORD BESWICKYes, my Lords, that is a fact. As the noble Lord says, they do not import from other countries; but it is also a fact that Eire is a net exporter of beef. We are in a quite different position.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, if there is a valid case that there is an association between foot-and-mouth disease in this country and foot-and-mouth disease in those countries where it is endemic, why has there not been an outbreak in this country for the last forty years during which we have been importing meat from the countries where foot-and-mouth disease is endemic?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, I confess that I do not entirely understand the noble Baroness's question. There have, of course, been a number of outbreaks in this country.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, having been a Minister in the Ministry of Food I recall having to get meat over a long period from countries where foot-and-mouth disease was endemic, and nobody ever suggested at that time that there was any association between foot-and-mouth disease in those countries and in this country.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, this illustrates the difficult problem that we are discussing. The fact of the matter is that some people say that almost certainly the disease is caused by imported 1251 meat; others say, with equal certainty, that so far not one piece of meat from those other countries has been found to be infected with foot-and-mouth disease. The decision that will have to be taken by the Committee of Inquiry will be based upon all the facts at our disposal; and personally I should have thought that a decision was best taken objectively by a Committee of that kind, rather than by question and answer across the Floor of the House.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, arising out of the noble Lord's earlier most patient replies, and since there seems to be ambiguity in the Press, may I ask whether he is in a position to make any authoritative statement as to the length of time that the germs can remain in the marrow of bones, because that seems to be a matter of profound concern over the country?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. That is one of the facts of the situation, that germs are persistent in the marrow over an especially long time. Exactly how long I cannot say.
§ LORD BALERNOMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether since the inoculation and vaccination policy has been adopted in the Argentine there has been an increase in the number of cattle carrying the disease, and that this cannot be identified at the point of slaughter in the Argentine, so that this country is at greater risk from foot-and-mouth disease than ever it was before?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, I would rather not comment here upon the experience of the farmers in the Argentine. The noble Lord has far greater experience than I of these matters, and he knows, I think, the answer to his own question.
§ LORD BELSTEADMy Lords, could the noble Lord tell me what percentage of our total annual beef imports comes from the Argentine? Could he give me some idea as to where the Government are looking at the moment to make up the gap which is presumably now caused by the loss of these imports?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, the figure is of the order of 10 per cent. As for alternative supplies I would rather not answer that question without notice.