THE PRICES AND INCOMES BOARD (Hansard, 20 October 1966)

§ LORD BYERS
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, the implementation of Part IV of the Prices and Incomes Act does not in any way affect the functions and responsibilities of the Board.

§ LORD BYERS
My Lords, will the noble Lord tell me exactly what the Board are supposed to do during the period when they are not able to recommend any alterations or increases whatsoever in prices and incomes? Are they, in fact, going to do anything until next August?

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, the responsibilities on the Board are not limited merely to deciding whether a pay increase or a price increase is valid or is in the public interest. The Board also have the responsibility of providing advice and information to the general public on the question of productivity, and prices and incomes, and a number of references have been made to the Board prior to Part IV coming into being. In fact, on October 3, at the request of the distribution side of the fruit and vegetables trade, the point on which there was discussion between the trade and the Ministry was referred to the Board. I would say to the noble Lord, Lord Byers, that the previous reports of the Board provide a very interesting and helpful basis for discussion. This will be particularly valuable once the freeze is over, when we move to the period of severe restraint, and then for the months and years that lie ahead.

§ LORD BYERS
My Lords, while I accept from the Minister that previous reports in a period of non-freeze are ex- 120 tremely valuable, would he not agree that there is no mention whatsoever in Part IV of the Act of the Prices and Incomes Board and that all responsibility from now on lies with Government Departments? Would he, therefore, say whether or not the Prices and Incomes Board have any useful function to perform? As one who believes that they have, I should like to have his assurance that we are not undermining the Board.

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, this Board will have a continuing responsibility, apart from the references that I have mentioned. It may well be, as the noble Lord, Lord Byers, knows, that even during the period of freeze, both in terms of prices and incomes and a general freeze, there may be cases, particularly in respect of prices, in which an increase may be necessary. I think that this has been generally recognised. If it is the judgment of the Minister concerned that an inquiry by the Board is suitable and right, that type of increase could be referred to the Board. The Board have a very important and useful part to play, not only during the present situation but in the years that lie ahead.

§ LORD BYERS
My Lords, what the Minister has said is that while the Board may be responsible for alterations in prices and for recommendations, they will have no power whatever to do anything on the incomes front until after August. Is that correct?

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, they would have the duty and responsibility to look at any proposed increase which might be negotiated by the two sides of industry. The responsibility, shall we say, after the freeze is over of whether or not there is an increase will be very much a matter for the Minister.

§ LORD BLYTON
My Lords, can my noble friend put to the Prices and Incomes Board that in respect of the selective employment tax the brewers and the distributive trades are increasing prices and making a profit out of the tax rather than charging the actual tax they have to pay?

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, if my memory is right, the last reference which I mentioned, regarding the distribution of fruit and vegetables, arose from increases in taxation, and it was at the wish 121 of the trade that this matter should be referred to the Prices and Incomes Board.

§ LORD DRUMALBYN
My Lords, would the noble Lord say whether it would be possible for the Government to refer to the Prices and Incomes Board the question whether increases should be allowed after January 1?

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, I would say that it is perfectly possible for such a matter to be referred to the Board. It may well be that discussions are now going on between both sides of industry and the Government about how the period of severe restraint should apply, particularly taking into regard the lower-paid workers.

§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD
My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that British Railways hotels have increased all their prices to offset the selective employment tax, which ties up with the question put by the noble Lord, Lord Blyton? Do the Government agree that the nationalised industries should increase their prices to offset the selective employment tax?

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, I would suggest to the noble Viscount that he looks at the Question again, and then he will see that his supplementary question is extremely wide of the mark. I will say this to the noble Viscount. We have recognised that there are some increases which cannot be avoided, not only in the nationalised industries but in private industry, but we have made it perfectly clear, and I will repeat it to the noble Viscount, that we do not believe that these increases can justifiably be passed on entirely to the general public. Discretion should apply.

LORD INGLEWOOD
My Lords, would it be relevant to the Question for the noble Lord to refer to the Prices and Incomes Board the conduct of such organisations as British Railways hotels which now make a practice of adding to any bill a specific item—I think it is 3s. per night—for the selective employment tax? Does the noble Lord think this is contributing to holding steady the cost of living?

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, without going into the costings of the British Railways hotels, as no doubt the noble 122 Lord, Lord Inglewood, did before he asked his supplementary question—

LORD INGLEWOOD
No, I just paid the bill.

§ LORD SHEPHERD
We have to look at the accounts. It would be perfectly right for the Minister to refer such a case, if he thought that the charge was unjustified.

§ LORD BROCKWAY
My Lords, may I ask whether the Minister is aware that noble Lords on this side of the Chamber, and noble Lords opposite, who have recently been to Brighton and Blackpool, know that these increases are not limited to the hotels of British Railways?

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, my noble friend Lord Brockway, as usual, is quite correct.