§ LORD TWEEDSMUIRMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government to what reasons they ascribe the failure to reach their present housing target in Scotland.]
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, the Government do not accept that they have failed to reach their housing target in Scotland. For the public sector they aimed to approve about 30,000 houses in their first year of office and about 46,000 houses in the eighteen months to March, 1966. The number actually approved was 47,313. Allowing the usual time for preliminary site works, they expected construction to start by March on about 32,000 of these, and this was achieved. It takes about 21 months, on average, from the approval to the completion of a house, so the disappointing number of completions in recent months is attributable directly to the small number of houses approved by the last Administration in the relevant months of 1964.
Nevertheless, Her Majesty's Government are not satisfied with the rate at which some local authorities are coming forward with the schemes which, at the beginning of the year, they said they expected to start this year, and discussions are to be held next week with the major authorities in order to expedite progress.
§ LORD TWEEDSMUIRMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his reply, I would ask, further: how is it expected that the selective employment tax will help the construction industry in Scotland to meet its acute shortage of workers?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, as I said in answer to a previous question, that is rather wide of the original Question.
§ LORD FORBESMy Lords, I wonder if the noble Lord can say whether the target which was set out in the White 963 Paper on the Scottish Economy, stating that an extra 20,000 people would be taken on in the constructional industry by 1970, still holds good.
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, I see no reason whatever to disagree with that statement.
§ BARONESS HORSBRUGHMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he and the Government agree with it?
§ LORD HUGHESI am sorry, but I did not quite hear the noble Lady. I do not know whether she asked whether the Government agreed with me, whether the Government agreed with her or whether the Government agreed with it. The answer to the first and third parts is, "Yes"; to the second, "Not necessarily".
§ BARONESS HORSBRUGHI am sorry the noble Lord did not hear me, so may I repeat the question? Do the Government agree with the statement?
§ LORD HUGHESI do not find it necessary to add to the triple answer I have already given.
THE EARL OF SELKIRKMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether the target for this year is still 39,000 houses?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, the target for this year, we hope, will be completed. However, I should like to warn noble Lords that the figures for the second quarter of this year will not be unduly impressive—noble Lords laugh just a little too soon—for the same reason as the figures for the first three months have not been impressive; that is, that the figures approved by the previous Administration in the succeeding three months of 1964 were even less than the relevant figures for the production in the first part of this year. Noble Lords may wish to have some indication of the accuracy of the assessment which the Scottish Office have made in relation to approvals, starts and completions. The six months ended June, 1964, are the relevant period for the six months ended March, 1966, in relation to completion. During that period of six months the Conservative Administration approved 13,402 houses. The number of houses completed in the six months to March, 1966, is almost identical, 13,411.
964 Unfortunately, as I have said, the next three months of Conservative approvals were even worse: in the succeeding quarter only 4,200 were approved, and this must be reflected in the figures for April, May and June of this year. Fortunately, the figures approved by the Labour Administration in the last three months of 1964 and the first three months of 1965 were at a rate twice as great as the preceding six months; and this is what will enable us to reach our proposed target.
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that many of us on this side of the House are getting rather anxious as to what the noble Lords opposite are going to do as time goes on and they are no longer able to blame the Conservative Government?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, I hasten to assure the noble Lord that we do not share his anxiety. We shall be content to rest our completions on our own approvals. This will be a source of complete satisfaction to the people of Scotland; although that feeling will not necessarily be shared by the Front Bench opposite.
THE DUKE OF ATHOLLMy Lords, could the noble Lord say why it takes five months longer, on average, for a council house to be completed than for a private house?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, it does not necessarily take five months longer for a council house to be completed than a private house. The figures I have given, of 21 months, are the time from which approval is given to the time that a house is completed. We do not know the comparable figures for private houses. The only comparisons we can make are the starting dates of the actual construction and the completion dates; and as between private and the public field there is little or no difference.
LORD HAWKEMy Lords, may we assume that the figures given by the noble Lord refer to entirely conventionally built houses and do not contain any element of factory-built houses where, presumably, the building time is much shorter?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, the figures include both conventional and industrialised housing.
§ BARONESS HORSBRUGHMy Lords, that being so, can the noble Lord say whether the Government think it possible to decrease the time from approval to the time when the house-building begins?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords this is not a matter which is within the control of Her Majesty's Government. It depends on a great many factors. It depends on the extent to which local authorities have been able to keep ahead with the preparation of sites and the construction of the necessary road and sewerage works, and so on. This is one aspect of the discussions which will be taking place next week, because it is a field in which there is room for expediting completion dates and diminishing the period between the approval of a house and its completion.