§ 2.45 p.m.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make a statement on the proceedings of the Disarmament Conference at Geneva.]
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (LORD CHALFONT)My Lords, the Eighteen-Nation Disarmament Committee, which reconvened in Geneva in January, went into recess yesterday, May 10, and will meet again on June 14 for the summer session. During the present session, the Committee has concentrated its principal attention on the problems involved in reaching agreement on a treaty to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons and a comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty. These are, by general agreement, the really urgent steps that need to be taken in the disarmament field. The Committee has also discussed other arms control measures, as well as general and complete disarmament.
Progress has been slower than we should have wished. In the negotiations for a non-proliferation treaty—a treaty to prevent the further spread of nuclear weapons—the United States Government 654 has suggested some amendments to the draft agreement which it tabled last year. We believe that these amendments help to narrow the dispute between the Western and Soviet positions; but serious differences remain. The principal obstacle to progress in achieving a comprehensive test ban treaty, which would extend the partial test ban treaty to cover underground tests, remains the question of how it should be verified.
During the recess we shall re-examine the position reached in the negotiations, in order to determine the best way to make progress. Other parties to the negotiations will also be taking stock. We hope that, as a result, it will be possible to advance when the Committee reconvenes for the summer session.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, may I express in the presence of the Minister what I have expressed in his absence: my very great appreciation of his ability, dedication and independence.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I am only following the courtesies of this House May I ask the noble Lord whether his statements in Geneva and at his Press conference mean that nuclear responsibility by consultation rather than by a collective force is to take a place in the British Government's policy? Does this not mean some reconsideration of the British retention of nuclear weapons? In that case, would not the best example as to proliferation of non-nuclear weapons be the discontinuance of nuclear weapons by our own Government?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for the kind remarks he has made. So far as the question is concerned, the position of Her Majesty's Government on the questions of nuclear sharing and nonproliferation has, I think, been made clear before. It is that these are matters now under consideration. They are not, of course, entirely matters for Her Majesty's Government. In this we must often be guided by the views and opinions of our allies. Certainly what I said about the process of consultation over nuclear weapons represents the policy of Her Majesty's Government. I 655 have no reason to believe that abandonment by Her Majesty's Government of the British nuclear capability would lead us much further from or much more quickly towards disarmament or effective measures of arms control.
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, may I ask the Leader of the House whether it is not a custom in this House that Statements come after 3.30 and certainly not during Questions?
§ THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (THE EARL OF LONGFORD)My Lords, if I may say so, I think that the point needs rather careful consideration. I have had the opportunity of giving it very brief consideration. On the information I have been able to acquire, I think that it would be very difficult for me to argue that Lord Brockway's Question was out of order; but I think the procedure does need a little investigation.
§ LORD CARRINGTONWould the noble Earl look at it? Because when the Government are asked to make a Statement it is difficult for the Government not to make a Statement. I do not at all complain at what the noble Lord, Lord Chalfont, said I think he was in a very difficult situation; but this is inclined to be, or could be, an abuse of the Starred Question procedure of the House.
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, I should not like to argue that anything that fell from the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, was an abuse of anything. But I see, and see very clearly, the point of the observations of the noble Lord who leads the Opposition.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, may I say—
§ LORD BROCKWAY—that I am very willing to agree to the wishes of this House and to any discussion with the Leader of the House as to what the proper procedure should be.
LORD REAMy Lords, might I ask the Minister whether the Disarmament Conference, which we all wish so well, has had recent contact with China?
§ LORD CHALFONTNo, my Lords, there has been no direct contact with the People's Republic of China over disarma- 656 ment. The Government of that country shows no interest whatsoever at the moment in international disarmament negotiations and has made no sort of reaction to any suggestion that there might be.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, might I put a further question to the Minister? In view of the fact that China is prepared to consider nuclear disarmament on a total basis, is the prospect of Her Majesty's Government not only to gain immediate non-proliferation but subsequently the total abolition of nuclear arms?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, of course general and complete disarmament, including the abolition of nuclear weapons, remains the final aim of Her Majesty's Government. But we can negotiate only with people who are ready to negotiate with us.