§ 2.43 p.m.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress is being made in this country in the production of oil from coal, in view of the need to ensure full use of indigenous materials in the interest of the balance of payments; and whether inquiries are being made into a report that the U.S. Department of the Interior claims to have developed a process to make petrol from coal at prices below those of extracting it from crude oil, i.e., at 10½ to 13 cents a U.S. gallon against 12½ to 14 cents from crude oil.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (LORD STONHAM)My Lords, technological work on making oil from coal in this country was suspended in 1960 in implementation of a recommendation of the Wilson Committee on Coal Derivatives which found that the prospects of doing so economically were remote. There is close co-operation between the National Coal Board and those responsible for planning coal research in the U.S.A., and my right honourable friend is kept informed of the progress of American experiments. The process under examination in the U.S.A., to which my noble friend refers, was one of those inquired into by a delegation which visited the United States last October under these arrangements for collaboration. The delegation concluded that the process in question would not be capable of economic application in our own country, where the ratio of coal to oil prices is different from that obtaining in U.S.A.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. There is little else that can be said, and I believe it is quite obvious that this matter is being kept under attention.
§ LORD PEDDIEMy Lords, could my noble friend give an assurance that before consideration is given to vast capital expenditure upon the extraction of oil from coal, there will be an assessment of the full potentialities of obtaining gas from under the North Sea?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, of course assessments of the potentialities of all fuels are kept constantly in mind, but I think it should be said that the key factor in the question put by my noble friend Lord Leatherland is a comparison between coal and oil prices in the United Kingdom and in the United States of America. Crude oil prices are about the same in both countries; that is approximately £ 6 to £ 7 per ton, which works out at 3½ to 4d. a therm; but whereas the average pithead coal price in the United States of America is about 1½d. a therm, the cheapest grade in Great Britain is just under 4d. a therm—more than double—and that is the governing factor.
§ LORD PEDDIEMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he will kindly reply to the question which I put to him?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, the question which my noble friend put to me related to North Sea gas. I answered it by saying that all means of power and fuel were kept under consideration. That of course includes the supplies of North Sea gas.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that while prices may be lower to-day in the glut of world oil, this may not last for ever and it is imperative to continue to try to get oil from the carbon in coal economically?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I quite agree with my noble friend. I am merely stating the present position, which is that the difference between 1½d. and 4d., as far as the coal prices are concerned, is a not unimportant factor. But my right honourable friend's Department and the National Coal Board are keeping in close contact with these developments overseas and they will continue to be kept so informed. However, I would say to my noble friend that we must have regard both to these indisputable facts and to the expert views of the National Coal Board.