HL Deb 22 January 1964 vol 254 cc937-9
THE EARL OF ARRAN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government why the proceedings of the investigation ordered by the Minister of Health into the circumstances of the death of the late Karl Pensom are not to be held in public.]

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY of HEALTH (LORD NEWTON)

My Lords, allegations which led to the setting up by the Regional Hospital Board of a committee of inquiry have not yet been substantiated, and their investigation may involve matters of professional capacity and reputation. It is normal practice in such cases for the evidence to be given in private.

THE EARL OF ARRAN

My Lords, are Her Majesty's Government aware that the parents and other relatives of the dead person are extremely eager that these proceedings should be heard in public? Are they further aware that if the proceedings are heard in private the impression is bound to be given that something is being concealed? Should not justice evidently be seen to be done?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, there is no wish to give any impression at all that things are to be concealed, and my right honourable friend is most anxious that the matter should be investigated fully and frankly; and I have no doubt that it will be. As to the late Mr. Karl Pensom's father, I think he was to some extent worried by the thought that a committee sitting in private would provide him with no opportunity of giving evidence himself. But he has been assured that he will be asked, not only to give evidence, but also to be present during the whole of the hearing if he so wishes.

THE EARL OF ARRAN

My Lords, may I press Her Majesty's Government a little further? May I ask why this quasi-judicial inquiry should be more subject to an in camera hearing than any other? Is security involved, or are the medical profession entitled to official privilege?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, as I said in my original Answer, this is in accordance with normal practice, and also in accordance with the recommendation of the Franks Committee. The Franks Committee recommended that in general a tribunal hearing should be in public. But it made an exception in certain cases, including those in which intimate personal circumstances have to be disclosed and cases involving professional capacity and reputation, when the complaint still has to be substantiated, and the functions of the hearing body do not include the taking of a decision.

LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETH

My Lords, would it not be a good thing if newspaper editorial conferences were held in public rather than in private? Would not the public thereby know a great deal more about the noble work of Fleet Street and the Press generally?

THE EARL OF ARRAN

My Lords, I can assure Her Majesty's Government that, so far as we are concerned, everybody is entitled to listen in. I think that most people would not be very interested.

LORD AIREDALE

My Lords, was there, or will there be, a coroner's inquest on this case, and was it, or will it be, held in public?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, I am afraid that I do not know whether there has been an inquest, but it is not a matter for Her Majesty's Government.

LORD AIREDALE

My Lords, presumably it is a case of "death in unusual circumstances", and I think that on such occasions there is usually a coroner's inquest, which is usually held in public, and then those wishing the matter to be investigated in public have their wish satisfied.

LORD NEWTON

Yes, my Lords; but I think I am right in saying that Her Majesty's Government have no responsibility for the decisions of a coroner.