HL Deb 18 June 1959 vol 216 cc1256-7
LORD FARINGDON

My Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what approaches were made to the Executors of the Westminster Estate to persuade them to sell the picture by Rubens of the Adoration of the Magi to the nation and whether it was pointed out to them that in the event of their agreement to such a sale the price paid would not be liable to estate duty towards the payment of which the money could be applied.]

THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (VISCOUNT HAILSHAM)

My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer said in another place on Tuesday, the executors of the estate in question are aware both of the importance of this picture from the point of view of the national art collection and of the various means by which it might be transferred to the nation, including the implications as regards death duty.

LORD FARINGDON

My Lords, arising out of that reply, for which I thank the noble Viscount, I wonder if I could ask him whether further negotiations are going on at the present time; and could we have an assurance that, in any case, this picture will not be allowed to leave the country?

VISCOUNT HAILSHAM

I do not think that I am in a position to say anything about negotiations. I was not aware that I had discussed any. The potential purchasers from abroad have been clearly warned by the National Gallery Trustees that the latter will seek to prevent the export of this picture if it is sold abroad; but whether export is or is not stopped after auction is a matter for the Reviewing Committee on the Export of Works of Art, which Committee is also responsible for determining any price which a United Kingdom public gallery would have to offer for the picture if a licence were withheld.

VISCOUNT ELIBANK

My Lords, may I ask the noble and learned Viscount this question? Under the terms of the trust, are the executors not bound to obtain the best possible price that they can for this picture; and how can the best possible price be obtained unless the picture is put up for auction?

VISCOUNT HAILSHAM

I do not think that I can discuss the legal obligations of the trustees of a private estate.

LORD SALTOUN

My Lords, may I ask the noble Viscount whether the announcement that he has just indicated as having been made is not the very thing which prevents the executors from getting a good price at an auction?

VISCOUNT HAILSHAM

I do not think so. I think that the terms of what I said have made it quite clear that the announcement has not only just been made.

LORD WINSTER

My Lords, may I ask the noble Viscount whether, in the event of the nation deciding to purchase this picture at Sotheby's, the amount received by the executors of the estate will be liable to estate duty?

VISCOUNT HAILSHAM

My Lords, these are very difficult questions, and I shall do my best to get the answer right; but the House will forgive me if I make a mistake. I think that when there is a sale by auction, duty is always payable on the proceeds.

LORD FARINGDON

Is the noble Viscount aware that the prices paid by the nation for pictures of national importance which are sold direct to the nation have always been most generous?

VISCOUNT HAILSHAM

I am always glad to hear tributes paid to Her Majesty's Treasury.