§ LORD SILKINMy Lords, I desire to raise a point of Order for the ruling of the Leader of the House, and I am advised that this is the appropriate moment, or at least the convenient moment, to do so. It relates to the last item on the Agenda this afternoon, the Motion by the noble Lord, Lord Morris. I have endeavoured to make contact with the noble Lord, but I regret that I have not been able to do so. I hope that if he is in the Chamber now or at any later moment, he will acquit me of any discourtesy in the matter.
My point of Order is that it is quite outside the jurisdiction of this House to exercise any control over talks on the 288 B.B.C. These talks are entirely a matter for the Governors of the B.B.C. If at any time Parliament or anybody else disapproves of these talks—either of the subject matter or of the manner in which the subject matter is dealt with—it seems to me entirely a matter to be dealt with by the Governors and for representations to be made to the Governors. I submit that it would be a very bad day indeed if Parliament took it upon itself to comment—and in this case, to comment in advance—upon speeches that were to be made on the B.B.C., and thereby to influence such talks, either for or against.
I have not the slightest idea what the Bishop of Southwark is going to say. It was only this afternoon that I learned what was the subject matter of his talk, and I raise this point of Order obviously without any preconceived views one way or the other as to what he is going to talk about, or whether I am in favour or opposed to the subject matter. But I think it is quite wrong that we should be discussing this question and thereby seeking to influence the B.B.C. I have no doubt at all that such a debate could never take place in another place. I should be grateful, therefore, if the noble Earl would give us his views on the matter. Although I realise that those views need not necessarily be accepted by the noble Lord who is moving the Motion in this House, I think that if he had a definite expression of the noble Earl's opinion it would carry a great deal of weight with him.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH RELATIONS (THE EARL OF HOME)My Lords, as the noble Lord knows, I have had very short notice of this point, although he gave me as long notice as he could. I have had what consultation is open to me, and I am advised that there is nothing in our Standing Orders and in the body of customary procedure that would seem to rule this debate out of Order. While it may be true that the day-to-day activities of the B.B.C. are not the responsibility of Her Majesty's Government, I cannot, I think, find anything improper in a debate being raised here on a question of public interest, because any question of public interest can be debated in this House if a noble Lord wishes to put down a Motion on 289 the subject. I think it would be a mistake if we were, by an excessive rigidity in applying our Standing Orders, to curtail the right of noble Lords, and the practice of noble Lords, to put down Motions on matters of public concern.
That is not to say that I am not concerned myself, as is the noble Lord, Lord Silkin, about this Motion. I think it will greatly depend on the way in which it is moved by the noble Lord, Lord Morris. I think my preliminary finding must be that although I should be perfectly willing to consider this matter, in the proper place, along with the Opposition and others interested, I would add these reservations. First of all, there is not a Standing Order which would affect this Motion; secondly, if there were, I do not think we ought to be excessively rigid about our procedure; and, thirdly, I should like to judge, on the way in which the noble Lord, Lord Morris, moves this Motion and deals with it, whether it is really a matter for this House or one in which I should intervene at a later stage,
§ LORD SILKINMy Lords, speaking for myself, I accept the view of the noble Earl without necessarily agreeing with it. If he thinks that he ought not to interfere in this debate I will certainly accept that. But I want to warn the House that we are embarking on a very dangerous course. If it is open to any Member of this House to put down a Motion on any subject which is being discussed on the B.B.C.—either which has been discussed or is about discussed—it is a very dangerous course. I am prepared to leave it at that, and only hope that it is a course which will not be pursued on a future occasion.
THE EARL OF HOMEMy Lords, I think if the House would leave it to me, and perhaps the Leader of the Opposition, we could consult together upon this practice and see whether there is any recommendation we ought to make to the House; but I think that to-day we ought to leave it there.
VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGHMy Lords I am much obliged to the noble Earl. I should like to have consultation because it is very important that we should not widely differ in this House from the other place in dealing with any national industry or 290 nationally set up body. Although there are certain questions one can put I think it would be rather out of harmony with general Parliamentary procedure if we were at variance with the other place.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, I am expressing only a personal opinion, but I hope that it will not be understood that the two Front Benches arrange the debates. The debates and the Rules of Order lie in the control of all the Members of the House. I do not dispute at all the merits of what my noble friend said, but I hope that that principle will be kept in mind.
THE EARL OF HOMEMy Lords, I absolutely accept that principle, and it is the function of the Leader of the House, in which I hope the Leader of the Opposition will join, to protect the rights of the Members of the House as a whole.
LORD REAMy Lords, perhaps the noble Lord would consider the possibility of referring the matter not only to informal discussions but to the appropriate Committee which exists.