IMPORTED LIVESTOCK ORDER, 1958

HL Deb 12 May 1958 vol 209 cc163-7

2.50 p.m.

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (EARL ST. ALDWYN) rose to move, That the Imported Livestock Order, 1958, be approved. The noble Earl said: My Lords, this is chiefly a consolidation Order dealing with the importation of livestock into the United Kingdom. It brings together the provisions of the Livestock (Import from Eire and the Isle of Man) Regulations, 1945, and the Imported Livestock (Marking) Order, 1954. It also ends our reliance on emergency legislation for this particular purpose. It has been the policy of successive Governments since before the war to give the livestock industry the maximum help and encouragement. During the war and till 1954 we had the Government's purchase arrangements. Now we have the guarantee payments under the Agriculture Acts of 1947 and 1957.

These support arrangements not only apply to stock fattened in the United Kingdom but give recognition to our traditional dependence upon the supply of store animals, especially cattle from the Irish Republic, imports of which last year accounted for nearly 25 per cent. of the beef produced in this country. The present fatstock guarantee arrangements specially provide for guarantees to be paid on cattle and sheep which are bred outside, but are fattened or finished within, the United Kingdom provided they are of the right kind and have been in the United Kingdom for at least three months. To ensure the proper payment of subsidy, such cattle and sheep are marked as they enter the country, and for this reason we have to prescribe the times and places at which they may come in. To support these import controls we also need powers of seizure and forfeiture.

So much for the background. And now a few words about how the new Order differs from its predecessor. First, we have made provision for imports from the Channel Islands, which since 1954 have been covered by the provisions of the Defence Regulations Marking Order. Secondly, there has been a change in the definition of livestock, which now includes the carcases of pigs in Northern Ireland. This is to avoid the danger that they may be imported and entered for certification and payment of guarantee to which they are not entitled. Finally, there are the seizure and forfeiture arrangements. Previously these applied only to the animals themselves. The present Order applies them also to the vehicles and containers used to convey or conceal illegally imported livestock. The present high rates of subsidy are an increased incentive to illegal importation and we feel that more stringent measures are needed to deal with this situation. In general these preventive provisions will be used, as in the past, in Northern Ireland, where the land border with the Irish Republic presents special problems.

There are one or two minor purely procedural changes, designed mainly to bring these procedures, as far as possible, into line with those used by H.M. Customs and Excise in similar cases. I commend this measure to your Lordships therefore as being necessary for the continued well-being of our very important livestock industry and for the proper safeguarding of public money. My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved, That the Imported Livestock Order, 1958, be approved.—(Earl St. Aldwyn.)

2.55 p.m.

LORD WISE

My Lords, there are one or two matters which I should like to raise in regard to this Order. I realise how important it is for the Order to come into operation and to ensure that money is not paid for guarantees, on cattle or other animals, to which the owners or the sellers are not entitled. The information which I should like the Minister to give to the House, if he can do so, is this. He mentioned previous legislation in regard to the importation of cattle from Ireland and elsewhere. I am wondering what has been the past experience as to the number of cattle that have crept through without being earmarked or recognised in any way. If great numbers have crept through illegally, then of course we, as a nation, have had to pay guarantees to which there was no entitlement. I should like to know, also, what difficulties have arisen in the past in regard to that particular matter, and whether any stock of any sort has crept into Britain under the guise of being pedigree stock or stock for breeding. It is specifically mentioned in the Order that that class of stock is not liable to be earmarked. I am wondering, therefore, whether in the past any stock which should not have come through as breeding or pedigree stock has come into this country.

There is one rather interesting point which I think I should mention in regard to the particular procedure which has been adopted in carrying this Order through from the time it was made. On reference to the relevant dates I find that the Order was signed by the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food on March 27; it was also signed by the Secretary of State for Scotland on March 28, and was then signed by the Secretary of State for the Home Department on March 31, which was the date on which the Order was made. It was laid before another place on April 2 and was not discussed by them for over a month. It was approved in another place on May 7, and came before the Special Orders Committee of this House on April 30. According to my information, which I think is correct. this Order should pass through both Houses of Parliament within forty days of being made. From March 31 forty days have now passed, and I am wondering whether we are out of order, or the Order is out of order, by reason of its not having been passed through this House within the statutory period of forty days. This may be a small point, but what I am concerned about is that the Order has been held up for such a long time. In fact it came into operation on April 14, long before it was discussed in another place or in this House. I am anxious that we should not be regarded merely as rubber stamps to approve these Orders, which have, in effect, become the law of the land before ever they are discussed, as they should be discussed, in another place or in your Lordships' House.

2.58 p.m.

EARL ST. ALDWYN

My Lords, I hasten to assure the noble Lord that there is no intention of making this House or another place into any form of a rubber stamp. If I may, I will deal first with the last point he mentioned, because until I have cleared this up I should almost be out of order in dealing with the others. The noble Lord says that this Order has in fact been laid for more than forty days. But Section 7 (1) of the Statutory Instruments Act, 1946, says that where the House stands adjourned for more than four days that period is not counted—in other words, in this case we do not count the Easter Recess. So I can assure the noble Lord that we are within the forty days.

The noble Lord asked me how many cattle had been illegally imported. I am afraid I cannot tell him the number that have been illegally imported, because they have gone through. The only thing I can tell him is the number that we were successful in intercepting on their way through. I could give the noble Lord a great many figures, but those I will give him now are the figures of actual seizures. It does not necessarily mean that all the animals which I mention were in fact forfeited, as some of the stock was released when some of the cases came before the courts. The figures of actual seizures in 1957 were: cattle, 359 cases involving 2,207 head of cattle; sheep, 78 cases, involving 1,873 sheep; pits, 80 cases, involving 1,499 pigs. The figures for pigs were considerably lower than in the year before because of swine fever restrictions.

The noble Lord also asked me whether animals which were being imported as pedigree animals could secure the guarantee without being earmarked. The position is that unless, first, they are registered pedigree stock, and earmarked as such, and, secondly, they are being imported at prices which officials consider reasonable, they would not be allowed to come through as pedigree stock. So I do not think there is any serious danger in that direction.

On Question, Motion agreed to.